Mike talks with David Garland, the Arthur Vanderbilt Professor of Law and Professor of Sociology at New York University. He’s the author of multiple books, including the recently released Law and Order Leviathan: America’s Extraordinary Regime of Policing and Punishment, which they discuss on this episode

Topics Mike & David cover include:

why the US justice system is so deeply punitive

how American capitalism affects our penal system

American gun culture and crime

why crim is down but incarceration is up

race, family cohesion, and the prison population

how the US differs from other rich democracies

regional incarceration differences within the US

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