Talking with Globeshakers host Tim Zak, Amory Lovins of the Rocky Mountain Institute argues that the United States can operate on a fourth of the energy it now uses, while still providing the same or better services. This may seem far-fetched, but Lovins has been accused of taking off on flights of fancy before, though time has a remarkable way of proving his assertions correct.

https://ssir.org/podcasts/entry/amory_lovins_-_hero_for_the_planet