Anthony Mackay is joined by James Pellegrino, founding co-director of the University of Illinois at Chicago’s (UIC) interdisciplinary Learning Sciences Research Institute, and member of NCEE’s Board of Trustees. Pellegrino’s research and development interests focus on children's and adult's thinking and learning and the implications of cognitive research and theory for assessment and instructional practice. He has contributed to several National Academy of Science/National Research Council studies, including How People Learn: Brain, Mind, Experience, and School and How People Learn II: Learners, Contexts, and Cultures. During the interview, Pellegrino and Mackay discuss how people learn and the “deep learning debate.” Pellegrino also shares his views on the future of assessment of student learning in the U.S. and associated policy implications.