Michael and Karen consider the theories of Elan Barenholtz, an Associate Professor of Psychology at Florida Atlantic University. His self-description: "I use behavioral and embedded computational approaches (i.e. neural networks running in robots) to study the brain and behavior with the goal of developing a broad theoretical framework of neural function."

The videos that Michael and Karen were discussing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca_RbPXraDE with Curt Jaimungal, Elan Barenholtz and William Hahn positing a radical theory of human language generation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1q6Hhz0MAg with Kenneth Stanley who used to be at Open AI talking about an earlier method of AI research through Picbreeder

Karen ends the episode by reading from C S Lewis' essay on Transposition focusing on the necessity of a higher.