Just moments before we recorded this episode of The Emergence Room, roles briefly reversed.

Anita Contini – founder of Creative Time and longtime leader at Bloomberg Philanthropies – was in the midst of conducting interviews for her current research project, Origins and Outcomes. As part of that work, she interviewed T.J. while T.J. is working at the American Academy in Rome.

Then we pressed record—and the conversation simply shifted direction.

What followed was a grounded, generous exchange about how ambitious artistic visions meet reality: how ideas evolve once they encounter scale, funding, community engagement, and time; how some of Anita's most influential contributions began almost by accident; and how leadership often moves from individual problem to collective solution.

With Anita's partner Steve quietly behind the scenes helping record, the moment itself reflected the deeper truth of the episode: meaningful work is relational, shared, and sustained by care.

This conversation captures the spirit of The Emergence Room—reciprocity, curiosity, and emergence unfolding in real time. We're honored to share it with you.