Case and Sam are looking back at the earliest episodes of the show! Check out their thoughts on the seventeenth episode when Case sat down with Ben Milton and Addy Thomas and chatted about The Hobbit Trilogy!

Overview   In the latest Podcast Discussion meeting, hosts Case and Sam explored a meta-review of their previous episode on The Hobbit trilogy, originally recorded after their first year of podcasting. The discussion began with an overview of the original episode, highlighting a consensus that three films were excessive for the source material. They praised Martin Freeman’s casting as Bilbo while critiquing Peter Jackson for trying to align the film’s style with The Lord of the Rings, particularly noting that the addition of the villain Azog was unnecessary. They also pointed out issues with character design and narrative structure, suggesting a two-film adaptation could have better captured character arcs and pacing, particularly with scenes involving Smaug. The Battle of Five Armies was identified as the weakest film, marred by excessive padding and a lack of personal stakes compared to earlier battles in the franchise. The hosts expressed the importance of subtlety in fan service and connections to The Lord of the Rings while reflecting on their own views from the initial episode. They concluded by sharing their love for film and announced upcoming episodes focused on Captain America and Alien Resurrection, while encouraging listener engagement through their Discord server.

 

Notes Introduction and Episode Context (00:00 - 09:47)

• Case and Sam introduce this meta-episode reviewing a previous podcast about The Hobbit trilogy
• The original episode featured Case, Ben, and Addie discussing at 'CPOV Studios'
• They note this was recorded after completing the first year of the podcast
• Main critique established immediately: three movies was far too many for The Hobbit source material
• The hosts mention they didn't rewatch the entire trilogy for this meta-review

Initial Critique of The Hobbit Films (09:48 - 19:09)

• The hosts praise Martin Freeman's casting as Bilbo as a perfect choice that connects to Elijah Wood's Frodo
• They criticize Peter Jackson for trying to make The Hobbit fit the style and scale of Lord of the Rings
• The unnecessary villain Azog (the pale orc) is identified as a major problem
• They note Jackson used artificial narrative structures to create three separate arcs where the source material didn't support it
• Discussion of how Lord of the Rings doesn't rely on personified villains, but on evil as a force

‍️ Character and Design Issues (19:09 - 28:25)

• The hosts criticize the framing device that has Bilbo explaining the dwarven kingdom's history
• They argue Bilbo should be an uninformed viewpoint character discovering the world along with the audience
• The dwarves' inconsistent design is highlighted as problematic (either caricatures or just normal people)
• They discuss how the dwarves don't feel cohesive like in Lord of the Rings and lack distinct personalities
• Case praises the Gollum scenes as genuinely excellent despite other issues

️ Proposed Two-Movie Structure (28:25 - 37:07)

• Case suggests ending the first movie at Lake Town as a natural breaking point
• This would create a moment where Bilbo has a true choice to continue or turn back
• They discuss how this cut would make Bilbo's character arc work better for the first film
• The second film could focus on Thorin's character arc
• They criticize how the actual film cuts (especially the Desolation of Smaug ending) feel like TV cliffhangers

Smaug and Pacing Issues (37:07 - 46:35)

• The hosts praise the actual Smaug and Bilbo conversation scenes
• They criticize the extended Smaug chase/forge scenes as unnecessary padding
• Discussion of how Jackson is good at bringing book scenes to life but struggles when expanding material
• They propose that the second movie should open with the dwarves finding the door to the Lonely Mountain
• They critique the narrative weight of many extended sequences that don't actually advance the story

️ Battle of Five Armies Criticisms (46:36 - 55:45)

• The Battle of Five Armies is identified as the weakest film with the most padding
• They argue the battle should have been the third act of a movie, not an entire film
• Discussion of how the battle needed to feel smaller and more personal than Lord of the Rings battles
• They appreciate the decision to make Bilbo more active in the battle than in the book
• The hosts criticize the 'video game' quality of action sequences like the barrel rider scene

‍️ Fan Service and Connections to Lord of the Rings (55:45 - 01:04:58)

• They discuss how Legolas' inclusion made sense for the first film but was forced in later films
• They appreciate seeing Saruman before his fall to evil
• The hosts criticize heavy-handed references to Lord of the Rings (like mentioning Aragorn/Strider)
• They note how forcing connections to the original trilogy hurt the story
• Discussion of the 'video game' quality of action sequences compared to Lord of the Rings

Meta-Discussion of the Episode (01:04:58 - 01:15:51)

• Sam and Case reflect on the original episode, finding it thorough and well-argued
• Sam admits not rewatching the trilogy for this meta-review as it would be too time-consuming
• They reaffirm that the trilogy's main problem is its excessive length
• Sam praises the costumes while Case notes the 48 FPS format made everything look fake
• They discuss how watching the entire Middle-earth saga chronologically would be challenging

Final Thoughts and Upcoming Episodes (01:15:51 - 01:32:34)

• Case reiterates that a good two-movie cut exists within the trilogy's footage
• They agree the first film is the most watchable of the three
• Both hosts express their love for the first Captain America film (their next episode topic)
• Sam mentions she didn't rewatch the Hobbit films as they would take 10+ hours
• They provide information about their Discord server and social media presence
• Upcoming podcast episodes announced: Alien Resurrection and Captain America: The First Avenger

Action items

• Join and participate in the Discord server for further discussion (01:31:00)