Antionette and I talk about Creative Reaction Lab, scheduling services, deeper response, Fast Company Mag, Kinloch doesn't exist anymore, a lot of conversation and not enough action, cards against brutality, fear dictating actions, cat cafe, she needs translators!, black and latinx, I'm caramel, the lens of failure, design as a process and mindset, cultural history and healing, design is working when you don't know it's there, reverse mentoring.