I recently sat down for a conversation with Luke Seelenbinder, Founder & CEO of Stadia Maps to talk about taking on Google Maps with a more sensible and affordable mapping solution. As I learned more about the Stadia Maps journey I found ourselves talking about product-led motions for companies, and what the meaning of APIs as a product was. Luke and Stadia maps reflects the real world businesses who are doing APIs that I am looking to talk with, because they aren't playing in the startup hustle, and actually are building a real-world business that is in tune with and responds to actual market forces.