"Every journalist who is not too stupid or too full of himself to notice what is going on knows that [...] he is a kind of confidence man, preying on people's vanity, ignorance or loneliness, gaining their trust and betraying them without remorse." Some fighting talk from Janet Malcolm, back in 1989. But is there truth in her words? This week on Whale Hunting, Bradley talks to Steve Fishman, the legendary journalist who got big names like fraudster Bernie Madoff and killer Son of Sam to open up. Steve's latest podcast My Friend, The Serial Killer reflects on his first big break in journalism, which came about after a close encounter with serial killer Robert Carr. He talks about why the story has continued to trouble him, and what it was like to revisit his early reporting decades later. Bradley and Steve also discuss the intimacy of telling stories in podcasts, how to get sources to talk, and the careful balance between sincerity, compassion and ruthless reporting.

To listen to Steve's podcast, search for Smoke Screen: My Friend, The Serial Killer in your favourite podcast app. There's also the special director's cut of his show Empire on Blood, with three new episodes, coming soon to The Burden feed.

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