In this episode, I sit down with Ginna Cross to tackle the problems with the “second victim” narrative in the abortion debate—the idea that women are just as much victims of abortion as their unborn children. Ginna shares her background in pregnancy health and what led her to challenge this perspective. We discuss why this mindset has weakened the pro-life movement, how it undermines accountability, and why a shift in approach is necessary.

We also explore the growing influence of the abolitionist movement, the push for equal protection legislation, and the role of the church in addressing abortion with clarity and conviction. Throughout our conversation, we highlight the challenges of moving past the second victim narrative and why doing so is essential for the future of abortion abolition.

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