What does it mean to truly listen — to a child, to grief, to the signs the universe leaves when we're paying attention? 

 Writer and former biology teacher Katie Rizzo joins Mary for a conversation of rare honesty about loss, addiction, guilt, and the unexpected ways art saves us. Katie's son Nicholas died from opioid addiction, and rather than turn away from the pain, she turned toward it — writing her way through the experience in two forthcoming books: The Trimesters of Grief, a memoir, and None of Them Are You, a collection of poems. Together, Mary and Katie explore the uncanny parallels between pregnancy brain and grief brain, the systemic failures of addiction medicine, the shame culture that surrounds both loss and addiction, and what it means to be "half here and half with Nicholas." This episode is about the courage to be broken — and what becomes possible when you stop pretending otherwise.

 ✅Key Topics

• Identity, loss, and what happens to a self built entirely around motherhood 
• The three "trimesters" of grief and the physical experience of bereavement
• Writing as a lifeline
• Nick Cave's practice of externalizing grief 
• The opioid crisis up close
• Shame in addiction: the systems, the families, and the internal monologue that tells addicts they are a moral failure
• The radical act of authentic grief: saying "I'm terrible" to a neighbor who expected "we'll get through it" — and what her running away taught Katie about who can witness pain
• Birds, bald eagles, and the question of what's real: on staying open to signs, connection beyond death, and resisting arrogance about what we don't understand
• Healing as service — not wholeness, not gold leaf over the cracks, but opening your eyes wide enough to climb a fence in Central Park for a stranger with a dropped phone
• How free do you wanna be? — the Al-Anon principle that became Katie's anchor in grief

💡Takeaways

• Grief and new life share the same body: disorientation, longing, inability to eat, altered time. The cruelty of that mirroring is also its strange intimacy.
• The 70–90% relapse rate for opioid addiction isn't a failure of willpower — it's a system in crisis. The drug is that powerful, and the structural incentives for alternatives are that weak.
• Addiction carries a cultural load of shame that kills. The shift from moral framing to disease framing isn't soft — it's survival.
• Art isn't content. It never was. Music, poetry, and story are how humans get back into their bodies, regulate, and transmit what language alone can't hold.
• Healing isn't restoration. It's learning to live as someone with a hole in them, and choosing to open your eyes anyway.
• Connection is not a feeling you generate — it's what happens when you say yes when someone calls, climb a fence when a stranger is crying, and tell the truth when someone asks how you are.

🎤Memorable Quotes

• "This death has shattered me, and I'm not a vase we can drizzle gold leaf over the jagged pieces and push back together. I'm just broken, which isn't as bad as it sounds." — Katie Rizzo, The Trimesters of Grief
• "I felt like I was this liminal creature. I was half here and half with Nicholas. I still feel that way." — Katie Rizzo
• "Art has the power to redress the balance of things, of our wrongs, of our sins... I have found that the goodness of the work can go some way towards mitigating them." — Nick Cave (read by Mary)
• "How free do you wanna be?" — Al-Anon, as quoted by Katie Rizzo

 🔗Resources / External Links (only if applicable)

 The Trimesters of Grief will be released on October 6 by Koehler Books, with Blackstone Publishing. None of Them Are You - A book of Poems will be published on October 31st by Extra Extra Publishing.

Katie's Books

• The Trimesters of Grief — memoir, releasing October 6th Published by Koehler Books & Blackstone Publishing 📸 Instagram: @koehlerbookspub 🧵 Threads: @koehlerbookspub 📘 Facebook: facebook.com/koehlerbooks 💼 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/koehler-books ▶️ YouTube: Koehler Books 📸 Blackstone Instagram: @blackstonepublishing 💼 Blackstone LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/blackstonepublishing 
• None of Them Are You — poetry, releasing October 31st (Día de los Muertos) Published by Extra Extra Publishing 📸 Instagram: @extraextrapublishinghouse

 Connect with Katie

• 🌐 Website: katierizzo.com
• 💼 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/katie-rizzo-098978280
• 📘 Facebook: facebook.com/rizzoboysandagirl
• 📸 Instagram: @katierizzo007
• 🎵 TikTok: @katie.rizzo007

Referenced in this episode

• Nick Cave — The Red Hand Files (blog): theredhandfiles.com
• David Kessler — grief researcher and author: grief.com
• Colin Campbell — Finding the Words (book on grief and connection)
• Dr. Steve Ramirez — memory researcher, Boston University (memory creation/removal in neuroscience)
• Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind — referenced in conversation about memory and loss
• Love in the Trenches — East Coast grief support group for parents who have lost children to addiction
• Al-Anon — support for families of people with addiction: al-anon.org
• Matthew Perry — Friends, Lovers, and the Big Terrible Thing (memoir on addiction, referenced by Mary)

 Keywords

grief memoir, opioid addiction loss, mother grief book, Trimesters of Grief, Katie Rizzo, loss of a child, addiction and shame, opioid crisis systemic failure, grief and creativity, writing through loss, Nick Cave grief, liminal grief, grief brain, poetry after loss, None of Them Are You, Koehler Books, Blackstone Publishing, Extra Extra Publishing, how to live with grief, Fractals of Change podcast

Disclaimer:

***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.***

Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub

Contact: [email protected]  

Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)