For decades, western societies have become increasingly committed to demonstrating in the most tangible way possible (i.e. through procedures) that risks are mitigated to all possible extent. Quantification and documentation have gradually come to dominate every aspect of risk, and disconnection with the reality of work has lead many to question the purpose of what we have created around work and safety. Greg Smith in his book “Paper Safe” has brilliantly unpacked this issue and the assumptions that sit in the back of it. Nippin met Greg while in Australia for a conversation that sheds light on how paperwork has so often become a blanket that rather than keeping us safe and warm, is blocking our view over the things that help us understand and tackle risk.