Making a Better [New] is a podcast dedicated to fostering a more inclusive New College campus climate by creating space for "real talk," and amplifying the voices of our community members, with a particular focus on voices we don't often get to hear. In this episode, we explore the benefits and limitations of civility. New College 2021 alum Steven Keshishian asks computer science professor Matt Lepinski, and 12th judicial circuit judge Charles Williams to share their perspectives on civility. Their take on civility on the college campus, from an outsider's perspective looking in, and from an insider’s perspective, offer a revealing contrast. The discussions shine a light on engaging with people who have different points of view and the importance of humility in civil discussion