Why Human Rights Should Never Be About Winning or Losing

Jenny Chen explores the challenge of embracing authenticity over assimilation, illuminating how curiosity and courage can drive systemic change and nurture genuine inclusion and belonging.

In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood welcomes Jenny Chen for a candid exploration into the challenges and possibilities of nurturing authenticity over assimilation in diverse societies and workplaces. The conversation traverses global politics, systemic barriers, and the subtle tensions between established norms and the pursuit of genuine belonging. Joanne and Jenny examine how performative inclusion often falls short, urging listeners to move beyond tokenistic gestures and confront the deep-rooted discomforts that block progress. Their dialogue scrutinises why political rhetoric about race and identity so powerfully shapes personal safety and access to rights, especially for those at society’s margins, and addresses the urgent need for systemic change through compassion, empathy, and courageous leadership.

Jenny Chen, formerly a high-ranking finance professional, now leads Catalyst Consulting with a mission to dismantle performative inclusion and rebuild workplace cultures where authenticity is not just accepted, but actively championed. Arriving in Canada as a political refugee from China at a young age, Jenny’s lived experience has instilled a relentless curiosity and insight into the immigrant journey – and its impact on identity and belonging. Jenny’s work as a DEI consultant merges personal narrative with strategic acumen, building bridges between underrepresented voices and decision-makers. Drawing directly on her own experiences overcoming systemic sexism and racism within corporate environments, Jenny advocates for practical integration of inclusive leadership, and highlights the necessity for individuals and organisations to recognise and address systemic failures at every level.

Joanne and Jenny challenge the notion that diversity and inclusion are merely HR initiatives, arguing for a fundamental redesign of systems to treat every person as uniquely complex. Their perspectives, from refugee journeys to combatting exclusion in finance, encourage listeners to consider how real change starts with courage, curiosity and the willingness to embrace uncomfortable conversations. They also discuss the peril of over-correcting social imbalances, warning against adversarial approaches and calling for sustainable, collaborative solutions.

A key takeaway from this episode is the power of honest dialogue and systemic empathy in building communities where all can thrive. Listeners will leave equipped with practical insights on fostering sustainable inclusion, as well as motivation to challenge status quo thinking, treat others as individuals, and engage courageously for a truly equitable future. Authenticity, as Joanne and Jenny remind us, is both the path and destination for true belonging.

Viral Topic: Transforming DEI from Siloed Initiatives to Core Business Practice: “So instead of just featuring our black Asianized women wealth management professionals on International Women’s Day, Black History Month, you know, Asian American Pacific Islander Heritage Month, integrating that and highlighting that in our regular programming, like it’s not, it’s not rocket science.”

Viral Topic: Diversity and Individual Respect: “Oftentimes I tell organisations, before we put a diversity lens on anything, let’s remove it and just ground ourselves in respect, kindness, human compassion and start there. Like that’s a great starting point, right?”

Viral Topic: Challenging Perceptions of Victims and Villains in Social Systems: “There is only victims on both sides navigating a broken system. And if we treat it that way, then people who think differently than us or are not one of us are not villains. Right? Just because they have a different perspective, they’re not the bad guy, we’re not listening to them to try and change their mind because we’re right and they’re wrong.”

Viral Topic: The Unintended Consequences of DEI Initiatives: “I think that in good intention we have created this environment of zero sum game, meaning exactly as you said, by bringing other people in, we are leaving or pushing other people out.”

Viral Topic: The Talent Shortage in Vital Sectors:

Viral Topic: Hidden Histories of Discrimination: “That was the worst period and not found in any history books. I didn’t learn that until I attended this event.”

Viral Topic: Generational Impact of Political Choices

Viral Topic: Who Should Create Equity?

Viral Topic: Redefining Leadership

Viral Topic – The Importance of Speaking Up: “And because we don’t talk about it, we treat it like it’s something of our past or that it no longer exists.”

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