Today we’re joined by Philip Piper, CEO & Co-Founder of Swarm (Swarm Markets) a builder at the intersection of DeFi, real-world assets (RWA) and regulated market infrastructure. In this forward-looking conversation with host Rupert Pickering (All In Crypto), Philip explains why we’re still in “Mickey Mouse land” for on-chain markets and why the next phase could bring trillions of traditional assets on-chain, surpassing even Bitcoin’s adoption curve.

We break down the (paused) U.S. market structure bill, the tokenization of gold as an unexpected RWA growth driver, privacy vs. surveillance in transparent ledgers, and Swarm’s Invenium acquisition to build a full-stack platform for agentic asset management — where AI agents analyze data with provenance, execute trades via open smart-contract rails, and manage portfolios with personal privacy in mind.

Swarm: https://swarm.comX

X: https://x.com/SwarmMarkets

What we cover (high-impact):

• How the market structure bill could clarify SEC vs. CFTC roles and unlock regulated DeFi primitives
• Why tokenized gold materially boosted RWA adoption in 2025
• Democratization vs. gatekeepers: collapsing middlemen while keeping regulated trust
• Privacy tech (ZK and private trading) vs. financial surveillance concerns
• Agentic AI portfolios, yield streaming, and instant derivative issuance on-chain
• Swarm × Invenium: linking provenance-rich data to tokens for credible markets

If you’re serious about RWAs, DeFi, or AI-driven investing, this one’s full of rare, no-nonsense insights. 👉 Subscribe for more deep dives, and comment with your biggest takeaway or question for Philip.