We're joined by prominent human rights activist and barrister, Baroness Shami Chakrabarti, someone who barely needs an introduction owing to the many high profile roles and cases that she's undertaken in her career - a true world-leading figure in human rights and law.

We discuss the creation and inception of the highly controversial Covert Human Intelligence Sources Act (CHIS Act), a law which gives immunity to agents of the state, as well as the growth of 'child spies'. There's a great deal to unpick in this discussion and we're lucky that Baroness Shami is able to walk us through it. Shami and a collection of UK politicians went above and beyond in attempts to water this bill down, and it is now an act, making it an official law. It's been described a 'dystopian'. So what's the story?

We're also joined by Neil Woods, many regular podcast listeners will know Neil, he's a former undercover operative who now advocates for a raft of reforms in efforts to make our communities fairer and safer. Neil also took part in the CHIS Act discussions and briefings, so we get to hear from both Shami and Neil about the backstory and ultimately what this now all means.

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