Sign up to save your podcasts
Or
Share Barry Burd: Teaching Java as an Art Form
Share to email
Share to Facebook
Share to X
Share to email
Share to Facebook
Share to X
Or
Barry Burd: Teaching Java as an Art Form
Duke’s Corner Java Podcast: Barry Burd: Teaching Java as an Art Form
Conversation with Barry Burd, a computer science teacher, an author, and the co-leader for two Java User Groups (JUGs). Barry is based in New Jersey and he’s taught at the undergraduate level for decades. His journey with Java began in 2004 when he attended small user group meetings of just five or six people. Those gatherings, once part of the Amateur Computer Group of New Jersey, have evolved into the Garden State Java User Group and the New York Java SIG, which now regularly feature Java Champions and prominent speakers from the Java development community. The transformation of the two JUGs on the East Coast of the U.S. reflects the broader growth of the entire Java ecosystem globally.
What distinguishes Barry’s perspective is his view of computer science as an art form. He frequently compares elegant code to works of art. He asks students who question the practical value of certain technical concepts whether they would ask the same question in a course about the Mona Lisa. This artistic perspective extends to his appreciation of Java as well. He marvels at the language’s thoughtful design, where features fit together as a unified whole rather than random pieces of technology thrown together haphazardly.
Java’s appeal for Barry grows from multiple sources. The language’s backward compatibility has been crucial for his work as an author and a teacher. He says that only one program broke across multiple editions of his books over the years. He contrasts this long term stability with other platforms that change frequently and force him to spend time fixing previously working code. The elegance and careful thought behind Java’s design resonates deeply with him. He appreciates the early decisions about inheritance and interfaces and the entire evolution of Java from the engineers under the stewardship of architects like Brian Goetz at Oracle.
Barry says that the six-month release cycle introduced in recent years has injected new life into the Java ecosystem. He sees the platform as self-sustaining now with strong leadership that shows no signs of fading. Living near New York City, he says that financial institutions depend on Java’s industrial strength reliability for obvious reasons. The technology serves two audiences well, he says, those who need rock-solid, enterprise-grade systems and those like himself who appreciate the beauty of well-crafted software.
When asked why Java is so great, Barry commented about the community but also added this bit: “I guess the other reason is that it’s good for industrial strength programming. People in the area of the world where I live in, close to New York City, in the financial district, rely on it. It’s just not breakable the way other platforms are.”
If you ever have a chance to take a software development class from Barry Burd, take it. You’ll love it.
Duke’s Corner Java Podcast Archives | Full Transcript
Quotes from the Barry Burd Episode
On Teaching and Enthusiasm
Context: Barry discusses his approach to teaching and what drives him in the classroom. He emphasizes the importance of enthusiasm and helping students who are motivated by the subject matter itself, not just career prospects.
Time Stamp: (00:31:42)
Quote: “When I have a class full of people where they’re asking questions and most importantly, laughing at my jokes, I am thrilled. For me, it’s a party. It’s not a classroom. It’s a sort of a, let’s get together and have fun with this topic.”
On the Love of Programming
Context: Barry describes his teaching philosophy and how he tries to convey his passion for computer science to his students, while also acknowledging that not everyone shares that passion.
Time Stamp: (00:32:05)
Quote: “I want them to understand that I love talking about this stuff and that if they share any of that love, I want them to participate in it.”
On Computer Science as an Art Form
Context: When asked why computer science matters and what he tells students about the field, Barry explains his perspective on programming as an artistic endeavor rather than purely practical skill.
Time Stamp: (00:44:05)
Quote: “For a lot of the courses, I treat it as an art form. There’s such a thing as elegant code and there’s such a thing as inelegant code. There’s such a thing as a beautiful algorithm and there’s such a thing as an algorithm that shouldn’t exist but does.”
On the Beauty of Computer Science
Context: Barry elaborates on why he teaches computer science, comparing it to art appreciation and explaining his personal motivation for working in the field.
Time Stamp: (00:46:05)
Quote: “When I think, why computer science? It’s because it’s artistic! It’s, oh yeah, I mean, it’s useful. And I certainly respect that. And I’m glad that people develop useful things for it. But my own interest in it is the beauty of it.”
On Java’s Industrial Strength
Context: Barry discusses why Java has had such longevity and what makes it special compared to other languages, particularly its reliability for critical systems.
Time Stamp: (00:55:59)
Quote: “I guess the other reason is that it’s good for industrial strength programming. People in the area of the world where I live in, close to New York City, in the financial district, rely on it. It’s just not breakable the way other platforms are.”
On Java’s Elegance and Thoughtful Design
Context: Barry explains what drew him to Java and what keeps him committed to the language, emphasizing the careful design philosophy behind it.
Time Stamp: (00:53:03)
Quote: “The other important part is it is so elegant. It is written, it is created, so thoughtfully.”
Time Stamp: (00:53:42)
Quote: “When Brian Getz and his team create new features, new classes, new parts of the Java ecosystem, they do it with the most careful thought possible.”
Time Stamp: (00:54:05)
Quote: “Overall, the platform is so well thought out. It’s such, for the purpose of teaching, it’s such a sensible way of exposing the underlying concepts of object-oriented programming and now more recently, data-driven, data-oriented programming.”
On Languages That Lack Industrial Strength
Context: Barry contrasts Java’s thoughtful design with other languages that feel less carefully constructed.
Time Stamp: (00:54:44)
Quote: “There are other languages whose names I won’t mention that seem like they’re pieces of stuff thrown together willy-nilly, not at particularly industrial strength.”
On Java as a Unified Whole
Context: Barry describes his appreciation for how Java’s features work together coherently and how this aligns with his way of thinking.
Time Stamp: (00:54:59)
Quote: “Java is this unified whole. I appreciate ideas that I can think of as one thing.”
Time Stamp: (00:55:42)
Quote: “There’s so much of Java that was created thoughtfully that in my mind feels like one idea, one snapshot. And that’s what I like to teach. And that’s what I like to write about.”
On the Six-Month Release Cycle
Context: Barry discusses what has helped Java remain vibrant and relevant over 30 years, particularly the introduction of more frequent releases in recent years.
Time Stamp: (01:01:05)
Quote: “The introduction of the six-month release cycle seems to have given an injection of life into the Java ecosystem that has really, really been good for it.”
On Java’s Future Sustainability
Context: When asked whether Java can sustain its quality and community over time, Barry expresses confidence in the platform’s future.
Time Stamp: (01:01:58)
Quote: “It seems to be self-sustaining. The introduction of the six-month release cycle seems to have given an injection of life into the Java ecosystem that has really, really been good for it. The fact that the stewards, the people at the head of the story who are managing the overall platform are doing a tremendous job right now.”
On Industrial Strength and Elegance Together
Context: Barry reflects on what the Java community needs going forward, balancing practical reliability with aesthetic appeal.
Time Stamp: (01:02:23)
Quote: “We need code that works for the developers, and we need code that’s elegant for us dreamers like me, crazy people.”
On Education Section at JavaOne
Context: Barry recalls an important moment when he realized that Oracle was seriously interested in the education sector, which made him feel less like an imposter at Java conferences.
Time Stamp: (00:21:32, 00:22:00)
Quote: “That educator session at JavaOne in 2025 … that was the first time that I saw that … Oracle is getting hyped up about the education sector. That was great! That was a wonderful session.”
On Java User Groups Evolution
Context: Barry describes the dramatic transformation of his local Java user group from informal learning sessions to a professional organization featuring top speakers.
Time Stamp: (00:02:45)
Quote: “We would, somebody in the group would find a topic to talk about, some platform, some piece of software, some Java thing, and they would kind of learn about it the week before and go in and talk about it. I gave some speeches like that, some presentations where I had no idea what I was talking about. I just learned it the week before.”
Time Stamp: (00:03:35)
Quote: “Suddenly we’ve gone from this group where it’s a bunch of people just spouting stuff that they learned last week to a first class Java User Group.”
On Being Thrilled by Haskell
Context: Barry recounts asking Brian Goetz what language he uses when “cheating on Java” and being delighted by the answer.
Time Stamp: (00:51:40)
Quote: “I was thrilled. His answer was Haskell. And I was just like, yeah, yes, man, yes. That’s a wonderful language.”
On Backward Compatibility
Context: Barry explains why Java’s backward compatibility has been crucial for his work as an author, contrasting it with other platforms that break frequently.
Time Stamp: (00:52:05)
Quote: “I’ve written six editions of beginning programming with Java for Dummies, and I’ve written eight editions of Java for Dummies. And the entire time that I’ve written these books, there was exactly one program that broke from one edition to the other. Just one.”
Time Stamp: (00:52:37)
Quote: “I’m working right now with another platform and, you know, they change it every month. They break things. Oh my God, how am I going to deal with these? I spend half my time just fixing programs that were working two weeks ago. I hate that. Backward compatibility is really nice.”
On First Encountering Java
Context: Barry recalls his first experience with Java when it was still in beta, reading the language specifications and being impressed by the design decisions around inheritance and interfaces.
Time Stamp: (00:53:12)
Quote: “The first time I encountered Java was Java was in beta and I downloaded the language specs. And I read it and I started off and it said it looked like C, C++ for a while. But then I read what they’re going to do with inheritance and what they’re going to do with interfaces. Wow, that is, as my colleague said years ago, that was like putting on a comfortable pair of shoes.”
On Feature Development Process
Context: Barry discusses how the Java team approaches adding new features to the language, emphasizing their methodical and thoughtful process.
Time Stamp: (00:54:27)
Quote: “In general, when they add a feature, it’s because they’ve spent a long, long time making sure that that feature fits nicely into the language, that that feature is usable, that that feature isn’t going to cause conflict and trouble with other parts of the language and cause trouble for other developers.”
On Teaching Through Visualization
Context: Barry describes his teaching methodology and how he works to help students conceptualize programming concepts as complete mental pictures rather than just syntax.
Time Stamp: (00:30:32)
Quote: “My teaching method changes every single day. Every day I’m trying to think of a new way of drawing pictures within their minds. You know, a loop isn’t a bunch of letters, F-O-R, open parentheses, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It’s something that you can see. It’s something you can feel.”
Time Stamp: (00:31:20)
Quote: “This is the picture. This is what you should think of all at once when you think of the quicksort. It’s not a bunch of lines of code. It’s this idea, you know, watch those little pieces bubble from one part of the list to another.”
Interview Archive
Get full access to Jim Grisanzio at grisanzio.substack.com/subscribe
View all episodes
By Jim GrisanzioDuke’s Corner Java Podcast: Barry Burd: Teaching Java as an Art Form
Conversation with Barry Burd, a computer science teacher, an author, and the co-leader for two Java User Groups (JUGs). Barry is based in New Jersey and he’s taught at the undergraduate level for decades. His journey with Java began in 2004 when he attended small user group meetings of just five or six people. Those gatherings, once part of the Amateur Computer Group of New Jersey, have evolved into the Garden State Java User Group and the New York Java SIG, which now regularly feature Java Champions and prominent speakers from the Java development community. The transformation of the two JUGs on the East Coast of the U.S. reflects the broader growth of the entire Java ecosystem globally.
What distinguishes Barry’s perspective is his view of computer science as an art form. He frequently compares elegant code to works of art. He asks students who question the practical value of certain technical concepts whether they would ask the same question in a course about the Mona Lisa. This artistic perspective extends to his appreciation of Java as well. He marvels at the language’s thoughtful design, where features fit together as a unified whole rather than random pieces of technology thrown together haphazardly.
Java’s appeal for Barry grows from multiple sources. The language’s backward compatibility has been crucial for his work as an author and a teacher. He says that only one program broke across multiple editions of his books over the years. He contrasts this long term stability with other platforms that change frequently and force him to spend time fixing previously working code. The elegance and careful thought behind Java’s design resonates deeply with him. He appreciates the early decisions about inheritance and interfaces and the entire evolution of Java from the engineers under the stewardship of architects like Brian Goetz at Oracle.
Barry says that the six-month release cycle introduced in recent years has injected new life into the Java ecosystem. He sees the platform as self-sustaining now with strong leadership that shows no signs of fading. Living near New York City, he says that financial institutions depend on Java’s industrial strength reliability for obvious reasons. The technology serves two audiences well, he says, those who need rock-solid, enterprise-grade systems and those like himself who appreciate the beauty of well-crafted software.
When asked why Java is so great, Barry commented about the community but also added this bit: “I guess the other reason is that it’s good for industrial strength programming. People in the area of the world where I live in, close to New York City, in the financial district, rely on it. It’s just not breakable the way other platforms are.”
If you ever have a chance to take a software development class from Barry Burd, take it. You’ll love it.
Duke’s Corner Java Podcast Archives | Full Transcript
Quotes from the Barry Burd Episode
On Teaching and Enthusiasm
Context: Barry discusses his approach to teaching and what drives him in the classroom. He emphasizes the importance of enthusiasm and helping students who are motivated by the subject matter itself, not just career prospects.
Time Stamp: (00:31:42)
Quote: “When I have a class full of people where they’re asking questions and most importantly, laughing at my jokes, I am thrilled. For me, it’s a party. It’s not a classroom. It’s a sort of a, let’s get together and have fun with this topic.”
On the Love of Programming
Context: Barry describes his teaching philosophy and how he tries to convey his passion for computer science to his students, while also acknowledging that not everyone shares that passion.
Time Stamp: (00:32:05)
Quote: “I want them to understand that I love talking about this stuff and that if they share any of that love, I want them to participate in it.”
On Computer Science as an Art Form
Context: When asked why computer science matters and what he tells students about the field, Barry explains his perspective on programming as an artistic endeavor rather than purely practical skill.
Time Stamp: (00:44:05)
Quote: “For a lot of the courses, I treat it as an art form. There’s such a thing as elegant code and there’s such a thing as inelegant code. There’s such a thing as a beautiful algorithm and there’s such a thing as an algorithm that shouldn’t exist but does.”
On the Beauty of Computer Science
Context: Barry elaborates on why he teaches computer science, comparing it to art appreciation and explaining his personal motivation for working in the field.
Time Stamp: (00:46:05)
Quote: “When I think, why computer science? It’s because it’s artistic! It’s, oh yeah, I mean, it’s useful. And I certainly respect that. And I’m glad that people develop useful things for it. But my own interest in it is the beauty of it.”
On Java’s Industrial Strength
Context: Barry discusses why Java has had such longevity and what makes it special compared to other languages, particularly its reliability for critical systems.
Time Stamp: (00:55:59)
Quote: “I guess the other reason is that it’s good for industrial strength programming. People in the area of the world where I live in, close to New York City, in the financial district, rely on it. It’s just not breakable the way other platforms are.”
On Java’s Elegance and Thoughtful Design
Context: Barry explains what drew him to Java and what keeps him committed to the language, emphasizing the careful design philosophy behind it.
Time Stamp: (00:53:03)
Quote: “The other important part is it is so elegant. It is written, it is created, so thoughtfully.”
Time Stamp: (00:53:42)
Quote: “When Brian Getz and his team create new features, new classes, new parts of the Java ecosystem, they do it with the most careful thought possible.”
Time Stamp: (00:54:05)
Quote: “Overall, the platform is so well thought out. It’s such, for the purpose of teaching, it’s such a sensible way of exposing the underlying concepts of object-oriented programming and now more recently, data-driven, data-oriented programming.”
On Languages That Lack Industrial Strength
Context: Barry contrasts Java’s thoughtful design with other languages that feel less carefully constructed.
Time Stamp: (00:54:44)
Quote: “There are other languages whose names I won’t mention that seem like they’re pieces of stuff thrown together willy-nilly, not at particularly industrial strength.”
On Java as a Unified Whole
Context: Barry describes his appreciation for how Java’s features work together coherently and how this aligns with his way of thinking.
Time Stamp: (00:54:59)
Quote: “Java is this unified whole. I appreciate ideas that I can think of as one thing.”
Time Stamp: (00:55:42)
Quote: “There’s so much of Java that was created thoughtfully that in my mind feels like one idea, one snapshot. And that’s what I like to teach. And that’s what I like to write about.”
On the Six-Month Release Cycle
Context: Barry discusses what has helped Java remain vibrant and relevant over 30 years, particularly the introduction of more frequent releases in recent years.
Time Stamp: (01:01:05)
Quote: “The introduction of the six-month release cycle seems to have given an injection of life into the Java ecosystem that has really, really been good for it.”
On Java’s Future Sustainability
Context: When asked whether Java can sustain its quality and community over time, Barry expresses confidence in the platform’s future.
Time Stamp: (01:01:58)
Quote: “It seems to be self-sustaining. The introduction of the six-month release cycle seems to have given an injection of life into the Java ecosystem that has really, really been good for it. The fact that the stewards, the people at the head of the story who are managing the overall platform are doing a tremendous job right now.”
On Industrial Strength and Elegance Together
Context: Barry reflects on what the Java community needs going forward, balancing practical reliability with aesthetic appeal.
Time Stamp: (01:02:23)
Quote: “We need code that works for the developers, and we need code that’s elegant for us dreamers like me, crazy people.”
On Education Section at JavaOne
Context: Barry recalls an important moment when he realized that Oracle was seriously interested in the education sector, which made him feel less like an imposter at Java conferences.
Time Stamp: (00:21:32, 00:22:00)
Quote: “That educator session at JavaOne in 2025 … that was the first time that I saw that … Oracle is getting hyped up about the education sector. That was great! That was a wonderful session.”
On Java User Groups Evolution
Context: Barry describes the dramatic transformation of his local Java user group from informal learning sessions to a professional organization featuring top speakers.
Time Stamp: (00:02:45)
Quote: “We would, somebody in the group would find a topic to talk about, some platform, some piece of software, some Java thing, and they would kind of learn about it the week before and go in and talk about it. I gave some speeches like that, some presentations where I had no idea what I was talking about. I just learned it the week before.”
Time Stamp: (00:03:35)
Quote: “Suddenly we’ve gone from this group where it’s a bunch of people just spouting stuff that they learned last week to a first class Java User Group.”
On Being Thrilled by Haskell
Context: Barry recounts asking Brian Goetz what language he uses when “cheating on Java” and being delighted by the answer.
Time Stamp: (00:51:40)
Quote: “I was thrilled. His answer was Haskell. And I was just like, yeah, yes, man, yes. That’s a wonderful language.”
On Backward Compatibility
Context: Barry explains why Java’s backward compatibility has been crucial for his work as an author, contrasting it with other platforms that break frequently.
Time Stamp: (00:52:05)
Quote: “I’ve written six editions of beginning programming with Java for Dummies, and I’ve written eight editions of Java for Dummies. And the entire time that I’ve written these books, there was exactly one program that broke from one edition to the other. Just one.”
Time Stamp: (00:52:37)
Quote: “I’m working right now with another platform and, you know, they change it every month. They break things. Oh my God, how am I going to deal with these? I spend half my time just fixing programs that were working two weeks ago. I hate that. Backward compatibility is really nice.”
On First Encountering Java
Context: Barry recalls his first experience with Java when it was still in beta, reading the language specifications and being impressed by the design decisions around inheritance and interfaces.
Time Stamp: (00:53:12)
Quote: “The first time I encountered Java was Java was in beta and I downloaded the language specs. And I read it and I started off and it said it looked like C, C++ for a while. But then I read what they’re going to do with inheritance and what they’re going to do with interfaces. Wow, that is, as my colleague said years ago, that was like putting on a comfortable pair of shoes.”
On Feature Development Process
Context: Barry discusses how the Java team approaches adding new features to the language, emphasizing their methodical and thoughtful process.
Time Stamp: (00:54:27)
Quote: “In general, when they add a feature, it’s because they’ve spent a long, long time making sure that that feature fits nicely into the language, that that feature is usable, that that feature isn’t going to cause conflict and trouble with other parts of the language and cause trouble for other developers.”
On Teaching Through Visualization
Context: Barry describes his teaching methodology and how he works to help students conceptualize programming concepts as complete mental pictures rather than just syntax.
Time Stamp: (00:30:32)
Quote: “My teaching method changes every single day. Every day I’m trying to think of a new way of drawing pictures within their minds. You know, a loop isn’t a bunch of letters, F-O-R, open parentheses, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It’s something that you can see. It’s something you can feel.”
Time Stamp: (00:31:20)
Quote: “This is the picture. This is what you should think of all at once when you think of the quicksort. It’s not a bunch of lines of code. It’s this idea, you know, watch those little pieces bubble from one part of the list to another.”
Interview Archive
Get full access to Jim Grisanzio at grisanzio.substack.com/subscribe