This week on Beliefs, we return to a conversation with one of our favorite guests, scholar and writer Susan Jacoby.

Secularism and atheism finds a full-throated defense in this episode. Jacoby takes us on a journey of where we were just one year ago: presidential politics on the rise, the rise of secularism, no pandemic in sight, and a world less complicated.

Jacoby brings together the threads of various moments in history to identify her view that religion and politics have never comfortably coexisted.