Carl and Richard talk to Ben Gracewood about his experiences working at MarkerMetro, building Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 applications *only* - no iOS or Android! Ben talks about getting seriously into the 'metro' design principles and how after some initial consternation, his customers come to love the UX experience in Windows 8 and Phone 8. Besides those designs, iOS and Android 'look like Window 3.11.' The conversation digs into the preferred toolstack for building apps and where the ugly bits lie. Awesome conversation if you're just getting up to speed in the metro world!