Ben Smith, author of "Traffic" and editor of Semafor, joins Steve Krakauer to talk about the end of an era in the digital media with the shuttering of BuzzFeed News and MTV News and bankruptcy of Vice, BuzzFeed's Disney deal sliding doors moment, the Obama era of the digital media vs. how the Trump era changed it, when Huffington Post put Trump news in its "entertainment" section, Smith's 2015 decision to say it's ok to call Trump a "mendacious liar," his decision to publish the Steele dossier in full, whether BuzzFeed should have framed it differently, reaction from Jake Tapper behind-the-scenes, how Trump made smart media members crazy, Gawker's legacy and whether countercultural rebels have become the establishment orthodoxy, how Twitter has changed the media landscape, the process of writing the book, and more. Plus Steve's thoughts on the CNN Trump town hall last week.

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