"What's the value?"-- it is the name of the show and I say it all the time, but I picked that name for a very specific reason. Not only is it the first question I ask each guest, but it is also a play on words because many people might believe that spending over an hour talking to an old friend about philosophy, right and wrong, and the meaning of life is a waste of time. They would ask "what's the value?" in asking these questions, because, as we made clear during this episode, there are not clear cut answers. So why bother asking? It is a fair question but I think the discussion I had with Mike illustrated (at least for me) why we need to ask them anyway. Life is hard, being a good person is hard; shit even figuring out what it means to be a good person is hard. If we have any hope of making it through this life in a way that brings us happiness and does not cause unnecessary pain to those around us, we have to dive head first into these conversations and these questions. 

Mike is someone I've known since middle school, but we have not caught up in a long time. I had a sense Mike spent a lot of time thinking about these questions and that he had some opinions on how we as humans could do better. It was really interesting to hear him talk about the evolution he has made (particularly since becoming a dad) and how now his main value is on helping society improve. This isn't the first time we've had that value chosen on the show (which I think is probably a good thing) but it is always interesting to hear each individuals logic and reasoning for that value.

We pushed ourselves to really question and test the things we were discussing, using actual scenarios to assess our thinking. We talked about corporal punishment, censorship, religion, and even moral dilemmas like choosing between saving your kid's life or saving all other kids on earth. You will hear it in our voices as we talk about this stuff, that there is a lot of strain and struggle. It is hard to think about these things and try to draw practical conclusions. It is why there is so much division and anger in the world today; this stuff is complicated and nuanced. But what Mike and I seemed to both agree on is that the best way to address that division and anger is being open to discussions like this where we are OK being wrong, we are OK not having all the answers, and we are OK doing the hard work to challenge ourselves to try to be better people (however you define "better"). Thanks a ton to Mike for being so open and thoughtful and thanks to you all for listening. I really hope you enjoy it.