Are Large Language Models (LLMs) truly intelligent, or just sophisticated pattern matchers? This episode dives deep into a fascinating debate sparked by Apple's recent research paper, which questioned the reasoning capabilities of LLMs. We explore the counter-arguments presented by OpenAI and Anthropic, dissecting the methodologies and the core disagreements about what constitutes genuine intelligence in AI. Join us as we unpack the nuances of LLM evaluation and challenge common perceptions about AI's current limitations.