On this episode, a conversation between Susan Lederer, and Christine Grady. Professor Lederer is the Robert Turrell Professor of medical history in bioethics, and the chair of the department of medical history in bioethics at the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health. Dr. Grady is chief of bioethics, and the head of the section on human subjects research at the National Institutes of Health. This conversation was recorded on March 10, 2021.