This episode was already on the calendar — then the worst-case self-custody scenario happened days before we hit record.

Jordan and Wyatt sit down with Chantel Lillycrop-Kostiuk, VP of Operations at Bitcoin Well, days after a critical entropy bug in Cold Card hardware wallets left seed phrases guessable and drained hundreds of Bitcoin from users who thought they were following best practice. Chantel walks through Bitcoin Well's response in real time — from spotting the first Reddit and X posts, to a 70,000-person customer email sent at 10pm the night the bug went public, to fielding three-hour calls with panicked Bitcoin Well Infinite clients migrating their life savings off compromised devices.

They get into why CoinKite's delayed and inconsistent disclosure did more damage than the bug itself, why self-custody isn't dead but needs to evolve toward better UX and collaborative custody models, and how AI-driven identity fraud (voice cloning, deepfakes) is forcing OTC desks to rethink verification beyond "does this sound like my client." Chantel also breaks down the Bitcoin Family Office Group — the joint venture connecting Bitcoin Well, tax, legal, and mining-depreciation expertise for clients in the $5-50M net worth range — and closes with a clear-eyed comparison to FTX and Mt. Gox: this was a hardware failure, not a Bitcoin failure, and the lesson is the same one it's always been — trust, but verify.

Starting this week, we're continuing our run of episodes featuring speakers from the Bitcoin Financial Services Summit — leading up to the event in October, we'll be bringing you conversations with the RIAs, CPAs, miners, and operators who'll be on stage in Denver.

🎟️ Join Us in Denver, Bitcoin Financial Services Summit

The Bitcoin Financial Services Summit returns October 20-22 in Denver, Colorado. RIAs, CPAs, lenders, miners, treasury companies, and Bitcoin-native operators all in one room. If you want to understand where Bitcoin and finance is going next, this is where you need to be. Get your tickets at bffs.media

Guest: Chantel Lillycrop-Kostiuk

Bitcoin Well

Website: bitcoinwell.com/infinite

Host Links

Wyatt O'Rourke

X: x.com/wyattorourke_

Website: basilic.io

Jordan Guess

X: x.com/jordanguess

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jordan-guess-cpa

Website: bitment.co

Bitcoin Financial Services Media

X: x.com/bffs_media

Website: bffs.media

YouTube: @bffs_media

Show Sponsors

Basilic Financial: Your wealth deserves intention. Basilic is a Bitcoin-focused wealth management firm helping clients find balance between money and meaning. Financial planning, individual wealth management, retirement services for SMBs, and Bitcoin financial services. basilic.io

Bitment: Tired of messy CSVs and broken cost basis? Bitment is the first Bitcoin-native accounting platform for CPAs, advisors, miners, and serious investors. Clean Bitcoin bank statements, reliable cost tracking, full reporting, and seamless fiat integration through Plaid. bitment.co

Satoshi Pacioli: Run a Bitcoin business? Meet your full-service accounting and tax partner built for the Bitcoin economy. Bookkeeping, financial reporting, tax compliance, and strategic planning for companies and individuals who speak Bitcoin. satoshipacioli.com

Partners

Unchained Capital: Not your keys, not your bitcoin? Unchained is a bitcoin financial services company offering collaborative multisig custody, bitcoin-backed loans, a trading desk, and bitcoin IRAs — all while you keep control of your keys. unchained.com

Sound HSA: Why let your health savings sit in cash? Sound HSA is the first bitcoin-native Health Savings Account, combining triple-tax-advantaged HSA benefits with real bitcoin holdings, automated tax docs, and a receipt vault for medical expenses. soundhsa.com

River Financial: Want a bitcoin-only brokerage built for the long haul? River offers full-reserve custody, zero-fee recurring buys, and an interest-bearing cash account that pays out in bitcoin. river.com

Quantify Funds: Looking to stack scarcity assets? Quantify Funds is the asset management firm behind the STKd suite of ETFs, including BTGD — the first ETF combining 100% bitcoin and 100% gold exposure. quantifyfunds.com

Revolution Mortgage: Buying a home or refinancing? Revolution Mortgage is a nationwide lender offering FHA, VA, USDA, and conventional loans, with a tech-driven process built for lower rates and faster closings. revolutionmortgage.com

Anchorage Digital: Need a qualified custodian that satisfies regulators, auditors, and IPS language? Anchorage Digital is the only federally chartered digital asset bank in the US, offering institutional-grade bitcoin custody, trading, settlement, and financing built for funds, RIAs, and corporate treasuries. anchorage.com

Bitcoin Sports Network: Relationships in this industry get built on the course, not in a webinar. Bitcoin Sports Network fuels the bitcoin lifestyle through championship golf tournaments and community experiences worldwide, plus weekly content on Golf BSN featuring tournament highlights, player stories, and the bitcoin golf nomad lifestyle. bitcoinsports.network

Most real estate owners have never heard of a dual-collateralized Bitcoin loan — but the ones who have are getting better rates, longer holding periods, and a hedge their neighbors don't have.

Jordan and Wyatt sit down with Chris Drzyzga, Senior VP and Principal at Voit Real Estate Services, to unpack how a 15-year commercial real estate veteran ended up building a live, transparent case study on integrating Bitcoin into property treasury, capital stacks, and operations. Chris walks through why orange-pilling real estate owners has been harder than expected despite the obvious parallel (fiat into sound money vs. fiat into hard assets), how tax-free refinance proceeds can fund a Bitcoin treasury without triggering a taxable event, and why the wash sale rule doesn't apply to property-classified Bitcoin holdings.

They also get into the operational side: using Bitcoin mining to heat buildings and cut energy costs (which run ~30% of opex), the difference between mining to subsidize expenses vs. mining to maximize output, and why private family offices — not REITs or institutions — are best positioned to move first. Chris closes with his own metric, satoshis per square foot, for comparing properties through a Bitcoin lens, and makes the case for why some assets should be sold outright rather than "Bitcoin-ified."

Starting this week, we're continuing our run of episodes featuring speakers from the Bitcoin Financial Services Summit — leading up to the event in October, we'll be bringing you conversations with the RIAs, CPAs, miners, and operators who'll be on stage in Denver.

🎟️ Join Us in Denver, Bitcoin Financial Services Summit

The Bitcoin Financial Services Summit returns October 20-22 in Denver, Colorado. RIAs, CPAs, lenders, miners, treasury companies, and Bitcoin-native operators all in one room. If you want to understand where Bitcoin and finance is going next, this is where you need to be. Get your tickets at bffs.media

Guest: Chris Drzyzga

Voit Real Estate Services

Podcast: The Real Estate Standard

X: x.com/chrisdriz

Website: chrisdrizga.com

Host Links

Wyatt O'Rourke

X: x.com/wyattorourke_

Website: basilic.io

Jordan Guess

X: x.com/jordanguess

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jordan-guess-cpa

Website: bitment.co

Bitcoin Financial Services Media

X: x.com/bffs_media

Website: bffs.media

YouTube: @bffs_media

Show Sponsors

Basilic Financial: Your wealth deserves intention. Basilic is a Bitcoin-focused wealth management firm helping clients find balance between money and meaning. Financial planning, individual wealth management, retirement services for SMBs, and Bitcoin financial services. basilic.io

Bitment: Tired of messy CSVs and broken cost basis? Bitment is the first Bitcoin-native accounting platform for CPAs, advisors, miners, and serious investors. Clean Bitcoin bank statements, reliable cost tracking, full reporting, and seamless fiat integration through Plaid. bitment.co

Satoshi Pacioli: Run a Bitcoin business? Meet your full-service accounting and tax partner built for the Bitcoin economy. Bookkeeping, financial reporting, tax compliance, and strategic planning for companies and individuals who speak Bitcoin. satoshipacioli.com

Partners

Unchained Capital: Not your keys, not your bitcoin? Unchained is a bitcoin financial services company offering collaborative multisig custody, bitcoin-backed loans, a trading desk, and bitcoin IRAs — all while you keep control of your keys. unchained.com

Sound HSA: Why let your health savings sit in cash? Sound HSA is the first bitcoin-native Health Savings Account, combining triple-tax-advantaged HSA benefits with real bitcoin holdings, automated tax docs, and a receipt vault for medical expenses. soundhsa.com

River Financial: Want a bitcoin-only brokerage built for the long haul? River offers full-reserve custody, zero-fee recurring buys, and an interest-bearing cash account that pays out in bitcoin. river.com

Quantify Funds: Looking to stack scarcity assets? Quantify Funds is the asset management firm behind the STKd suite of ETFs, including BTGD — the first ETF combining 100% bitcoin and 100% gold exposure. quantifyfunds.com

Revolution Mortgage: Buying a home or refinancing? Revolution Mortgage is a nationwide lender offering FHA, VA, USDA, and conventional loans, with a tech-driven process built for lower rates and faster closings. revolutionmortgage.com

Anchorage Digital: Need a qualified custodian that satisfies regulators, auditors, and IPS language? Anchorage Digital is the only federally chartered digital asset bank in the US, offering institutional-grade bitcoin custody, trading, settlement, and financing built for funds, RIAs, and corporate treasuries. anchorage.com

Bitcoin Sports Network: Relationships in this industry get built on the course, not in a webinar. Bitcoin Sports Network fuels the bitcoin lifestyle through championship golf tournaments and community experiences worldwide, plus weekly content on Golf BSN featuring tournament highlights, player stories, and the bitcoin golf nomad lifestyle. bitcoinsports.network

Most people think of Bitcoin onboarding as either "buy an ETF" or "run your own node" — Stephen Cole, co-founder of Castle, is building the entire financial stack in between.

Jordan and Wyatt sit down with Stephen to talk through Castle's journey from an automation-first on-ramp called Orchestra to a full Bitcoin-powered financial stack for businesses — cash accounts, revenue-percentage Bitcoin buys, and now high-yield exposure through Strategy's STRC. They dig into why Castle went to market with business entities first, how KYB compliance shapes onboarding, and why personal accounts are now opening up to retail individuals for the first time.

Stephen breaks down Castle's custody model with BitGo, why self-custody is always the goal but never the barrier to entry, and how the platform is quietly building treasury management tools — multi-sig-style approvals, permissioned roles, and governance — for businesses that want Bitcoin-native financial infrastructure without the operational headache. They also get into the STRC debate, stablecoins' place in a Bitcoin-first stack, and why Stephen thinks the term "Bitcoin treasury company" needs a much bigger tent than Wall Street headlines suggest.

Starting this week, we're kicking off a run of episodes featuring speakers from the Bitcoin Financial Services Summit — leading up to the event in October, we'll be bringing you conversations with the RIAs, CPAs, miners, and operators who'll be on stage in Denver.

🎟️ Join Us in Denver, Bitcoin Financial Services Summit

The Bitcoin Financial Services Summit returns October 20-22 in Denver, Colorado. RIAs, CPAs, lenders, miners, treasury companies, and Bitcoin-native operators all in one room. If you want to understand where Bitcoin and finance is going next, this is where you need to be. Get your tickets at bffs.media

Guest: Stephen Cole

Castle

Website: savewithcastle.com

Host Links

Wyatt O'Rourke

X: x.com/wyattorourke_

Website: basilic.io

Jordan Guess

X: x.com/jordanguess

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jordan-guess-cpa

Website: bitment.co

Bitcoin Financial Services Media

X: x.com/bffs_media

Website: bffs.media

YouTube: @bffs_media

Show Sponsors

Basilic Financial: Your wealth deserves intention. Basilic is a Bitcoin-focused wealth management firm helping clients find balance between money and meaning. Financial planning, individual wealth management, retirement services for SMBs, and Bitcoin financial services. basilic.io

Bitment: Tired of messy CSVs and broken cost basis? Bitment is the first Bitcoin-native accounting platform for CPAs, advisors, miners, and serious investors. Clean Bitcoin bank statements, reliable cost tracking, full reporting, and seamless fiat integration through Plaid. bitment.co

Satoshi Pacioli: Run a Bitcoin business? Meet your full-service accounting and tax partner built for the Bitcoin economy. Bookkeeping, financial reporting, tax compliance, and strategic planning for companies and individuals who speak Bitcoin. satoshipacioli.com

Unchained Capital: Not your keys, not your bitcoin? Unchained is a bitcoin financial services company offering collaborative multisig custody, bitcoin-backed loans, a trading desk, and bitcoin IRAs — all while you keep control of your keys. unchained.com

Sound HSA: Why let your health savings sit in cash? Sound HSA is the first bitcoin-native Health Savings Account, combining triple-tax-advantaged HSA benefits with real bitcoin holdings, automated tax docs, and a receipt vault for medical expenses. soundhsa.com

River Financial: Want a bitcoin-only brokerage built for the long haul? River offers full-reserve custody, zero-fee recurring buys, and an interest-bearing cash account that pays out in bitcoin. river.com

Quantify Funds: Looking to stack scarcity assets? Quantify Funds is the asset management firm behind the STKd suite of ETFs, including BTGD — the first ETF combining 100% bitcoin and 100% gold exposure. quantifyfunds.com

Revolution Mortgage: Buying a home or refinancing? Revolution Mortgage is a nationwide lender offering FHA, VA, USDA, and conventional loans, with a tech-driven process built for lower rates and faster closings. revolutionmortgage.com

Kendall Weihe, Jordan's co-founder at Bitment, joins the pod for a rare deep dive into what actually changed in software engineering — and by extension, financial services — over the last 12 months.

Kendall walks through his path from a corporate software engineering job at KFC to Coinmetrics (Nick Carter's data analytics company), to Jack Dorsey's Block, where he worked on the TBDEX decentralized exchange protocol, and finally into stablecoins before going all-in on Bitment. Along the way: why cold emails still work, why he thinks the "VC talking his book" critique of Nick Carter misses the point, and what it was actually like spending two days a year frying chicken as a corporate KFC policy.

The back half is the real meat: Kendall argues that since roughly December 2025, AI coding tools have fundamentally changed what it means to build software — he barely writes or reads code anymore, and instead manages AI agents the way he'd manage employees. He breaks down why software was ground zero for this shift (Linux standardization, decades of developers automating their own jobs) while human systems like finance, law, and government will take much longer to diffuse. He also makes the case for vibe coding as a communication tool rather than a shortcut, uses a "skyscraper" analogy for why AI-assisted engineering is still laborious, and lays out his vertical-vs-horizontal, diffusion-vs-standardization framework for what a real AI-native operating system for financial services actually requires.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

01:35 How Kendall and Jordan Met

03:22 Kendall's Background: KFC to Coinmetrics to Block

06:27 Inside TBDEX: Building a Decentralized Exchange at Block

08:56 The KFC Colonel Question

10:35 Cold Emails and Getting Into Coinmetrics

12:46 Is Nick Carter Misunderstood?

16:07 Double-Entry Bookkeeping, Bitcoin, and AI for Financial Advisors

22:03 "Learn to Code" Aged Poorly: AI and the Disruption of Software Engineering

28:35 Vibe Coding: Powerful Tool, Dangerous Shortcut

33:41 The Skyscraper Theory of AI-Assisted Engineering

36:38 Diffusion vs. Standardization: Decentralizing Big Tech

43:56 Vertical vs. Horizontal: What It Takes to Build an AI-Native OS

47:40 Closing Thoughts

Host Links

Wyatt O'Rourke

X: x.com/wyattorourke_

Website: basilic.io

Jordan Guess

X: x.com/jordanguess

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jordan-guess-cpa

Website: bitment.co

Bitcoin Financial Services Media

X: x.com/bffs_media

Website: bffs.media

YouTube: @bffs_media

Show Sponsors

Basilic Financial: Your wealth deserves intention. Basilic is a Bitcoin-focused wealth management firm helping clients find balance between money and meaning. Financial planning, individual wealth management, retirement services for SMBs, and Bitcoin financial services. basilic.io

Bitment: Tired of messy CSVs and broken cost basis? Bitment is the first Bitcoin-native accounting platform for CPAs, advisors, miners, and serious investors. Clean Bitcoin bank statements, reliable cost tracking, full reporting, and seamless fiat integration through Plaid. bitment.co

Satoshi Pacioli: Run a Bitcoin business? Meet your full-service accounting and tax partner built for the Bitcoin economy. Bookkeeping, financial reporting, tax compliance, and strategic planning for companies and individuals who speak Bitcoin. satoshipacioli.com

Unchained Capital: Not your keys, not your bitcoin? Unchained is a bitcoin financial services company offering collaborative multisig custody, bitcoin-backed loans, a trading desk, and bitcoin IRAs — all while you keep control of your keys. unchained.com

Sound HSA: Why let your health savings sit in cash? Sound HSA is the first bitcoin-native Health Savings Account, combining triple-tax-advantaged HSA benefits with real bitcoin holdings, automated tax docs, and a receipt vault for medical expenses. soundhsa.com

River Financial: Want a bitcoin-only brokerage built for the long haul? River offers full-reserve custody, zero-fee recurring buys, and an interest-bearing cash account that pays out in bitcoin. river.com

Quantify Funds: Looking to stack scarcity assets? Quantify Funds is the asset management firm behind the STKd suite of ETFs, including BTGD — the first ETF combining 100% bitcoin and 100% gold exposure. quantifyfunds.com

Most Bitcoin conferences are 30,000 people, vanilla panels, and a badge you never look at again. The Bitcoin Financial Services Summit is the opposite — 200 curated seats, speakers you can actually walk up and talk to, and a room where roughly 80% of the people on stage are founders or executives still building through the bear market.

No guest this week — Wyatt and Jordan take a rare solo pod to break down everything coming to Denver October 20–22, and why this year's summit is bigger and better than year one.

They start with the venue: The Space, a member-run Bitcoin citadel in Denver with miners heating the floors (and the hot tub), and walk through the new Tuesday–Thursday schedule built for Bitcoiners with families — golf scramble and welcome party Tuesday, core summit Wednesday and Thursday, wine and bourbon tastings, and a private-land mountain hike. Long group meals, intentional networking blocks, and zero chance you're scarfing down a burrito while someone herds you back to a talk.

Then the big announcement: continuing education. BFFS and Unchained are bringing real CPE credits for CPAs and financial advisors to the summit — with CLE for attorneys on the roadmap and a self-serve web platform launching later this year. If professionals are forced to grind out credits every December anyway, why not earn them learning about Bitcoin custody, tax, and estate planning — and stop bleeding high-net-worth clients to advisors who scoff at the asset?

They run through the sponsor lineup — Falcon Rappaport & Berkman, Quantify Funds, Sound HSA, River, and Unchained — and the first wave of speakers: Joe Kelly (Unchained), Stephen Cole (Castle), Matt McClintock, Tim Kotzman, Jeff Walton, and Eric Yakes, with a possible moderated Bitcoin treasury debate in the works.

They close with the case for showing up now: the people at a Bitcoin event 40–50% off the highs are the core group. In five years, when the Big Four are offering Bitcoin CPE, you'll wish you'd been in this room.

🎟️ Join Us in Denver, Bitcoin Financial Services Summit The Bitcoin Financial Services Summit returns October 20-22 in Denver, Colorado. RIAs, CPAs, lenders, miners, treasury companies, and Bitcoin-native operators all in one room. If you want to understand where Bitcoin and finance is going next, this is where you need to be. Get your tickets at bffs.media

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

01:06 Welcome to Bitcoin for Financial Services Media

02:03 A Rare Solo Pod: Summit Edition

04:51 The Space: Denver's Bitcoin Citadel Venue

07:52 Golf, Hikes, Tastings, and a Family-Friendly Schedule

11:01 Bitcoin Only — No Crypto, No "Digital Assets"

13:57 Why In-Person Events Matter More Than Ever

17:06 The 2026 Sponsor Lineup

21:44 Sound HSA, River, and Unchained

24:51 The Big One: Bitcoin CPE for CPAs and Advisors

30:15 Inside the Three-Day Schedule

36:50 First Wave of Speakers (and a Possible Treasury Debate)

42:40 Bear Market Conferences: Why You Want to Be in This Room

Host Links

Wyatt O'Rourke

X: x.com/wyattorourke_

Website: basilic.io

Jordan Guess

X: x.com/jordanguess

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jordan-guess-cpa

Website: bitment.co

Bitcoin Financial Services Media

X: x.com/bffs_media

Website: bffs.media

YouTube: @bffs_media

Show Sponsors Basilic Financial: Your wealth deserves intention. Basilic is a Bitcoin-focused wealth management firm helping clients find balance between money and meaning. Financial planning, individual wealth management, retirement services for SMBs, and Bitcoin financial services. basilic.io

Bitment: Tired of messy CSVs and broken cost basis? Bitment is the first Bitcoin-native accounting platform for CPAs, advisors, miners, and serious investors. Clean Bitcoin bank statements, reliable cost tracking, full reporting, and seamless fiat integration through Plaid. bitment.co

Satoshi Pacioli: Run a Bitcoin business? Meet your full-service accounting and tax partner built for the Bitcoin economy. Bookkeeping, financial reporting, tax compliance, and strategic planning for companies and individuals who speak Bitcoin. satoshipacioli.com

Most people write off Bitcoin mining as a waste of energy or a game reserved for hardware geeks and public mega-miners. Beau Turner, CEO and co-founder of Abundant Mines, says it's actually the most natural and versatile channel for physical energy in the world — and one of the most powerful tax strategies available to everyday investors.

Wyatt and Jordan sit down with Beau to unpack what it really takes to run a Bitcoin mining hosting operation, why the industry has a marketing problem, and how Abundant Mines has quietly built a bridge for the "normie" investor — retirees, real estate investors, and high-earning W-2 employees who've never touched an ASIC but are staring down big tax bills.

Beau shares his story from the ground up. From a family of real estate investors and gold bugs, to an engineering degree at SMU, to liquidating a Dallas real estate portfolio to go all-in on Bitcoin — and the brutal $500K loss with a Georgia hosting provider that taught him everything a mining host should never do. That experience became the blueprint for Abundant Mines: all-inclusive pricing, hash rate redirect, equipment insurance, and white-glove onboarding that walks clients through self-custody from day one.

They get into the Big Beautiful Bill. How 100% bonus depreciation lets investors write off mining equipment in year one, how W-2 earners can use a mining LLC to offset active income, and why multi-year deployment strategies matter when the IRS always gets paid eventually. Then the conversation moves to the Bitcoin Family Office — why fractional family office services are the missing infrastructure for Bitcoiners with growing net worth, and how coordinated tax, legal, financial planning, and mining strategy beats playing telephone between advisors who can't talk to each other.

They close out with Beau's take on the public miners pivoting to AI and HPC, why hash rate leaving the network is a gift to everyone who stays, and his case for why the best time to allocate to mining is exactly when nobody's paying attention.

🎟️ Join Us in Denver, Bitcoin Financial Services Summit The Bitcoin Financial Services Summit returns October 20-22 in Denver, Colorado. RIAs, CPAs, lenders, miners, treasury companies, and Bitcoin-native operators all in one room. If you want to understand where Bitcoin and finance is going next, this is where you need to be. Get your tickets at bffs.media

Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Beau Turner and Abundant Mines 02:43 The 30,000-Foot View of Bitcoin Mining Today 05:25 Reaching Investors Outside the Bitcoin Bubble 12:38 Inside the Abundant Mines Business Model 17:56 From Real Estate to a $500K Mining Lesson 24:12 The Big Beautiful Bill and 100% Bonus Depreciation 28:13 How W-2 Earners Use Mining to Offset Taxes 32:21 Building a Turnkey Bitcoin Business 36:45 The Bitcoin Family Office 49:27 Public Miners, AI Pivots, and the Case for Mining Now 59:08 How to Work with Abundant Mines

Guest: Beau Turner Abundant Mines

X: x.com/Beau_Turner21

Website: abundantmines.com

Referral Program: abundantmines.com/referral

Host Links

Wyatt O'Rourke

X: x.com/wyattorourke_

Website: basilic.io

Jordan Guess

X: x.com/jordanguess

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jordan-guess-cpa

Website: bitment.co

Bitcoin Financial Services Media

X: x.com/bffs_media

Website: bffs.media

YouTube: @bffs_media

Show Sponsors Basilic Financial: Your wealth deserves intention. Basilic is a Bitcoin-focused wealth management firm helping clients find balance between money and meaning. Financial planning, individual wealth management, retirement services for SMBs, and Bitcoin financial services. basilic.io

Bitment: Tired of messy CSVs and broken cost basis? Bitment is the first Bitcoin-native accounting platform for CPAs, advisors, miners, and serious investors. Clean Bitcoin bank statements, reliable cost tracking, full reporting, and seamless fiat integration through Plaid. bitment.co

Satoshi Pacioli: Run a Bitcoin business? Meet your full-service accounting and tax partner built for the Bitcoin economy. Bookkeeping, financial reporting, tax compliance, and strategic planning for companies and individuals who speak Bitcoin. satoshipacioli.com

Most people think generating a return on Bitcoin means taking on reckless risk or selling your stack. Adil Abdulali, Chief Strategy Officer at Amitis Capital, says the real opportunity is treating Bitcoin as pristine collateral and building disciplined financial strategies around it without ever parting with your sats.

Wyatt sits down with Adil to unpack what it actually looks like to run a Bitcoin-denominated hedge fund in a market where institutional adoption is still crawling, distribution networks haven't caught up, and the most sophisticated strategies are only just becoming accessible to serious investors.

Adil walks through his career from the ground up. From trading derivatives on Wall Street in the nineties, to seeding early hedge funds at Protege Partners, to getting introduced to Bitcoin through MIT's Media Lab in 2015, and ultimately going full-time Bitcoin in 2019. He breaks down how Amitis Capital uses Bitcoin as collateral to fund market-neutral trading strategies, why the basis trade opportunity has compressed as institutional capital flooded in, and where the next frontier lies as real-world assets get tokenized onto Bitcoin rails.

They get into the Meanwhile connection. How Bitcoin-denominated insurance policies and repo products create a virtuous circle for investors who want exposure to Bitcoin financial strategies without triggering a taxable event. Then the conversation moves to Strategy. Where Adil lands on the treasury company model, why he thinks the infinite game may be over, and what the growing concentration of Bitcoin in the hands of large fiduciaries means for the soul of the network.

They close out with what Amitis Capital is focused on now. Why the RIA distribution channel is still the key unlock, how the early hedge fund playbook maps directly onto Bitcoin asset management today, and Adil's case for why getting small investors into Bitcoin before the institutions take over is the most important thing anyone in this room can be doing.

🎟️ Join Us in Denver, Bitcoin Financial Services Summit

The Bitcoin Financial Services Summit returns October 20-22 in Denver, Colorado. RIAs, CPAs, lenders, miners, treasury companies, and Bitcoin-native operators all in one room. If you want to understand where Bitcoin and finance is going next, this is where you need to be. Get your tickets at bffs.media

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Adil Abdulali and Amitis Capital

02:50 Adil's Journey in Finance and Bitcoin

06:10 Transitioning to Bitcoin Asset Management

08:57 Strategies for Growing Bitcoin

11:59 The Role of Bitcoin as Collateral

14:52 Evaluating Bitcoin Capital Markets

18:13 The Impact of Derivatives on Bitcoin

20:54 The Future of Bitcoin and Quantum Risks

24:01 Bitcoinization of Finance and New Opportunities

33:01 Exploring Bitcoin's Future Opportunities

39:21 Adoption Challenges and Market Sentiment

46:25 Investment Strategies and Diversification in Bitcoin

55:09 The Impact of Institutional Players on Bitcoin

01:00:32 Future Directions for Bitcoin Financial Products

Guest: Adil Abdulali

Amitis Capital

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/adil-abdulali-48186393

Host Links

Wyatt O'Rourke

X: x.com/wyattorourke_

Website: basilic.io

Jordan Guess

X: x.com/jordanguess

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jordan-guess-cpa

Website: bitment.co

Bitcoin Financial Services Media

X: x.com/bffs_media

Website: bffs.media

YouTube: @bffs_media

Show Sponsors

Basilic Financial: Your wealth deserves intention. Basilic is a Bitcoin-focused wealth management firm helping clients find balance between money and meaning. Financial planning, individual wealth management, retirement services for SMBs, and Bitcoin financial services. basilic.io

Bitment: Tired of messy CSVs and broken cost basis? Bitment is the first Bitcoin-native accounting platform for CPAs, advisors, miners, and serious investors. Clean Bitcoin bank statements, reliable cost tracking, full reporting, and seamless fiat integration through Plaid. bitment.co

Satoshi Pacioli: Run a Bitcoin business? Meet your full-service accounting and tax partner built for the Bitcoin economy. Bookkeeping, financial reporting, tax compliance, and strategic planning for companies and individuals who speak Bitcoin. satoshipacioli.com

Most people think Bitcoin venture capital is just buying early and waiting. VJ Vesnaver, operating partner at Epoch, says the real work is finding the founders building the infrastructure that makes Bitcoin's future inevitable and backing them before anyone else sees it.

Wyatt and Jordan sit down with VJ to unpack what it actually looks like to run a Bitcoin-native venture fund in a market where AI is sucking all the oxygen out of the room, treasury companies are dominating the narrative, and the highest quality builders are the ones nobody's talking about yet.

VJ walks through Epoch's thesis from the ground up. Why bear markets produce better pipeline, how Bitcoin venture differs from traditional VC, and why the internal hurdle rate isn't a percentage, it's Bitcoin itself. From layer twos finding their niche to the regulatory tightrope founders walk daily, VJ gives a ground-level view of what's actually getting built in the Bitcoin ecosystem right now.

They get into the Bitcoin treasury company debate. Where VJ lands on the Parker Lewis vs. Michael Saylor tension, why he didn't invest in any of them, and what it would actually take for treasury companies to generate real yield beyond financial engineering. Then the conversation moves to AI. Whether the productivity gains are real, why open source is the natural counter to regulatory capture of frontier models, and how agentic payments could quietly push Bitcoin deeper into the medium of exchange phase faster than any orange-pilling campaign ever could.

We close out with what Epoch is watching right now. The boring, regulated, unsexy infrastructure plays that nobody's excited about yet, why banks lending against Bitcoin is still a massive unsolved problem, and VJ's case for why the courts, not Congress, are the real long-term guardians of freedom money.

🎟️ Join Us in Denver, Bitcoin Financial Services Summit

The Bitcoin Financial Services Summit returns October 20-22 in Denver, Colorado. RIAs, CPAs, lenders, miners, treasury companies, and Bitcoin-native operators all in one room. If you want to understand where Bitcoin and finance is going next, this is where you need to be. Get your tickets at bffs.media

Chapters

00:00 Welcome Back and Introductions

05:07 Investing in the Bitcoin Ecosystem

08:04 Market Dynamics: Bear vs. Bull

11:17 Institutional Involvement and Regulation

14:45 The Role of Bitcoin Treasury Companies

17:36 AI's Impact on Bitcoin and Startups

38:04 The Impact of Money Printing on Wealth Inequality

41:05 AI's Role in Asset Inflation and Bitcoin's Appeal

42:49 Capital Flow: Bitcoin vs. AI Investments

46:32 Investing in Regulated Bitcoin Financial Products

49:38 The Future of AI: Open Source vs. Centralization

53:41 Navigating Regulatory Challenges in Crypto

59:14 The Role of Courts in Shaping Crypto Law

01:04:25 Bitcoin Financial Services Summit

Guest: VJ Vesnaver

Epoch VC

X: @VJVesnaver

Website: epochvc.io

Host Links

Wyatt O'Rourke

X: x.com/wyattorourke_

Website: basilic.io

Jordan Guess

X: x.com/jordanguess

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jordan-guess-cpa

Website: bitment.co

Bitcoin Financial Services Media

X: x.com/bffs_media

Website: bffs.media

YouTube: @bffs_media

Show Sponsors

Basilic Financial: Your wealth deserves intention. Basilic is a Bitcoin-focused wealth management firm helping clients find balance between money and meaning. Financial planning, individual wealth management, retirement services for SMBs, and Bitcoin financial services. basilic.io

Bitment: Tired of messy CSVs and broken cost basis? Bitment is the first Bitcoin-native accounting platform for CPAs, advisors, miners, and serious investors. Clean Bitcoin bank statements, reliable cost tracking, full reporting, and seamless fiat integration through Plaid. bitment.co

Satoshi Pacioli: Run a Bitcoin business? Meet your full-service accounting and tax partner built for the Bitcoin economy. Bookkeeping, financial reporting, tax compliance, and strategic planning for companies and individuals who speak Bitcoin. satoshipacioli.com

Most people think getting orange-pilled is the hard part. Matt Golliher, financial advisor and co-founder of Orange Horizon Wealth, says convincing yourself is easy… rebuilding your entire practice around Bitcoin is where the real work starts.

Wyatt sits down with Matt Golliher to unpack what it actually took to transform a traditional, profitable RIA into one of the only fully Bitcoin-focused wealth management firms in the country. From compliance and custody to E&O insurance and custodian relationships, Matt walks through every brick wall Vista Investment Partners had to knock down, and rebuild, before Orange Horizon Wealth could go live in May 2024.

Matt Golliher shares his path from dismissing Bitcoin as "digital Beanie Babies" in 2017 to obsessively researching it through the pandemic, the moment reading The Bitcoin Standard made him start sweating, and why getting orange-pilled at a bank would have ended his career as a financial advisor. They get into the three real options for Bitcoin-convicted advisors stuck at legacy firms, how Swan Bitcoin became the only viable custodian for spot Bitcoin at the time, and the nuts and bolts of how Orange Horizon operates as a DBA and partnership structure under Vista.

We close out with the Rockford story… how Jeff Arand used a firm transition bonus to stack Bitcoin, then plugged his practice into Orange Horizon's infrastructure as its first satellite office, and Matt's take on navigating client sentiment in a bear market, where he stands on Bitcoin treasury companies and leveraged Bitcoin equities, and why he's too busy building to check the price.

🎟️ Join Us in Denver - Bitcoin Financial Services Summit

The Bitcoin Financial Services Summit returns October 20–22 in Denver, Colorado. RIAs, CPAs, lenders, miners, treasury companies, and Bitcoin-native operators all in one room. If you want to understand where Bitcoin and finance is going next, this is where you need to be. Get your tickets at bffs.media

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Bitcoin Financial Services

03:16 Matt Golliher's journey into Bitcoin

08:34 The evolution of Vista Investment Partners

14:52 The impact of COVID-19 on Bitcoin awareness

20:22 Advice for financial advisors on embracing Bitcoin

27:42 Building Orange Horizon Wealth

29:25 Compliance challenges in Bitcoin wealth management

34:09 Navigating Bitcoin custody and insurance

36:39 Understanding the Orange Horizon and Vista relationship

37:16 Customizing advisor partnerships

39:17 The Rockford office opening

46:20 Client sentiment in a bear market

52:52 Exploring Bitcoin treasury companies and investment products

59:04 Fringe opportunities in Bitcoin financial services

01:04:02 Introduction to Bitcoin Financial Services Summit

01:04:31 The importance of community in Bitcoin integration

Guest: Matt Golliher

Orange Horizon Wealth / Vista Investment Partners

X: @MattGolliher

Website: orangehorizonwealth.com

Host Links

Wyatt O'Rourke

X: x.com/wyattorourke_

Website: basilic.io

Bitcoin Financial Services Media

X: x.com/bffs_media

Website: bffs.media

YouTube: @bffs_media

Show Sponsors

Basilic Financial — Your wealth deserves intention. Basilic is a Bitcoin-focused wealth management firm helping clients find balance between money and meaning. Financial planning, individual wealth management, retirement services for SMBs, and Bitcoin financial services. basilic.io

Bitment — Tired of messy CSVs and broken cost basis? Bitment is the first Bitcoin-native accounting platform for CPAs, advisors, miners, and serious investors. Clean Bitcoin bank statements, reliable cost tracking, full reporting, and seamless fiat integration through Plaid. bitment.co

Satoshi Pacioli — Run a Bitcoin business? Meet your full-service accounting and tax partner built for the Bitcoin economy. Bookkeeping, financial reporting, tax compliance, and strategic planning for companies and individuals who speak Bitcoin. satoshipacioli.com

Most people think of Bitcoin as something you hold. Moritz Kaminski, co-founder of Alby, says it's becoming something your AI agent spends.

Wyatt sits down with Moritz Kaminski to unpack why the Lightning Network is quietly becoming the payment rail of the agentic internet, what it actually looks like to give an AI agent a self-custodial Bitcoin wallet, and why micropayments are the unlock that nobody in the AI conversation is talking about enough.

Moritz Kaminski walks through his path from venture capital to building on open source Bitcoin infrastructure, why privacy on Lightning gives it a structural edge over stablecoins and on-chain crypto, and what Alby learned from putting a 100,000 sat bounty on a publicly available AI agent and telling the internet to hack it. Wyatt and Moritz get into the mechanics of routing nodes, native Bitcoin yield, and why major players like AWS, Cloudflare, Stripe, and MasterCard are all quietly building agentic payment infrastructure right now.

We close out with Moritz Kaminski's take on where Bitcoin adoption actually stands as a payment method, why the digital gold narrative is still the strongest on-ramp for financial professionals, and what he'd tell anyone sitting on the fence about trying Lightning for the first time.

🎟️ Join Us in Denver — Bitcoin Financial Services Summit The Bitcoin Financial Services Summit returns October 20–22 in Denver, Colorado. RIAs, CPAs, lenders, miners, treasury companies, and Bitcoin-native operators all in one room. If you want to understand where Bitcoin and finance is going next, this is where you need to be. Get your tickets at bffs.media

Chapters [00:00] Introduction to Bitcoin and Albi [04:08] Understanding the Lightning Network [08:36] Growth and Adoption of the Lightning Network [11:40] Albi's Mission and Product Offerings [14:40] Bitcoin's Journey as a Payment Method [17:33] The Future of Identity and Trust with Nostr [21:23] AI, Agents, and Micropayments [30:10] Unlocking Micropayments and AI Agents [33:08] Building for AI: The New Product Paradigm [35:33] Learning from Hacking: Enhancing AI Agents [37:27] Product Market Fit: Bitcoin and AI Workflows [40:05] AI's Influence on Bitcoin: A Market Perspective [42:16] Integrating Lightning into Investment Products [48:45] Untapped Opportunities in the Lightning Ecosystem [50:37] Communicating Bitcoin's Value to Clients

Guest: Moritz Kaminski

Host Links

Wyatt O'Rourke

X: x.com/wyattorourke_

Website: basilic.io

Bitcoin for Financial Services Media

X: x.com/bffs_media

Website: bffs.media

YouTube: @bffs_media

Show Sponsors Basilic Financial — Your wealth deserves intention. Basilic is a Bitcoin-focused wealth management firm helping clients find balance between money and meaning. Financial planning, individual wealth management, retirement services for SMBs, and Bitcoin financial services. basilic.io

Bitment — Tired of messy CSVs and broken cost basis? Bitment is the first Bitcoin-native accounting platform for CPAs, advisors, miners, and serious investors. Clean Bitcoin bank statements, reliable cost tracking, full reporting, and seamless fiat integration through Plaid. bitment.co

Satoshi Pacioli — Run a Bitcoin business? Meet your full-service accounting and tax partner built for the Bitcoin economy. Bookkeeping, financial reporting, tax compliance, and strategic planning for companies and individuals who speak Bitcoin. satoshipacioli.com