Ron interviews Bob Zukis about how to improve corporate governance, and discussed the implications of Sarbanes-Oxley for incorporating proper expertise into Board of Director decision-making. Bob is a member of the National Association of Corporate Directors and was one of the founders of the Digital Directors Network; Bob discussed his book, The Great Reboot, which thought about the opportunities that Covid has provided for a reset of America's corporate sector.  Bob's discussion of complex systems and the impact of problems is important and he provided great examples ranging from the catastrophic 1986 Challenger accident to getting a flat when driving your car.