Bonhoeffer scholar and Christian ethicist Reggie Williams sits down with Mark to discuss Dietrich Bonhoeffer's experience in Harlem in 1930-31 which provided a foundation for Bonhoeffer's resistance of the racism of the Third Reich. Bonhoeffer has much to say to the church today regarding race relations and speaking out against injustice for the sake of others.

TRANSCRIPT

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Welcome to Jessup think I'm your host Mark Moore. And today on the show, we're delighted to have Dr. Reggie Williams. Dr. Roger Williams is an associate professor of Christian ethics at McCormick Theological Seminary in Chicago, Illinois. Dr. Williams was with us on campus recently as the keynote speaker for our annual spring theology lecture. He's a Bonhoeffer scholar, and has researched and written on Bonhoeffer his experience in Harlem in 1930, and 31, as a foundation for his resistance against the racism of the Third Reich, Dr. Williams and I explore issues of Bonhoeffer scholarship, and what the church can learn about race relations in the light of Bonhoeffer his experience, hope you enjoy the show.

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Dr. Williams, it's been just excellent having you on campus for the lecture for our annual spring lecture. And I'm so honored that you agreed to sit down with us on the podcast on Jessup think in, and I think the topic of your lecture and the topic of your book are so important. And such an important conversation for the church right now. In 2014, you published your book, Bonhoeffer is black Jesus, Harlem Renaissance theology and an ethic of resistance, which I just have to say at the beginning. That is a brilliant title. It just jumps off the page. And when you're searching it on Amazon, can you see all these different Bonhoeffer titles? I mean, it just is illuminated. And and I think it's illuminated because it's an area of Bonhoeffer studies that we don't know that much about, or at least within the, I'd say, the white evangelical community, I think, and that's really interesting. Because it's Bonhoeffer is kind of a celebrity within the evangelical community. And and there's been a lot of writing about him a lot of biographies that have come out recently. And and I thought it was interesting, as we've been promoting your lecture and promoting the topic, majority of the students that I talked with, and the majority of others, were really intrigued by they had no idea that Bonhoeffer had an experience in Harlem with the black church that influenced and so kind of maybe a first question, why do you think this has been an overlooked aspect of Bonhoeffer studies?

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First, Thank you, Mark, for having me here. It's been a good time on campus with you all and with the students. I would throw that wider than the white evangelical community, why, why, why evangelical church or community or so forth? This is just an aspect of Bonhoeffer studies. On one hand, it's also an aspect of the Western world. It's the Academy in general, right. So it's known it's been known for, you know, as long as people have been studying Bonhoeffer that he came to United States. But it's not been very clear. As to the impact of that time on him. Some may think that perhaps there isn't anything theological, substantial, that would come from an encounter with the black church. There is a biography actually a movie, a documentary, there's a documentary about haffer. I mean, I like the documentary is very good. When it gets to Harlem. It's a very popular one. And I feel hesitant to name him because he's a friend. Doing that documentary that's this one is a very popular one. When it gets to New York, it talks about the emotional impact of the church. So Abyssinian Baptist becomes a spot where Bonhoeffer kind of comes in touch with his emotions. interest. Yeah, and that's it. Yeah. And it leaves it just that's it. He, I mean, the quote is that Adam Clayton Powell senior taught his parishioners to be emotional in their worship. In Bonhoeffer comes into contact wi