The debate between brand marketing and performance marketing is over: they are the same thing. Or at least, they should be.

Brent Bowles, Senior Director of Growth at Upwork, joins the show to dismantle the idea that brand is just "vibes." For Brent, brand is the operating system that makes every performance dollar work harder. If your brand spend isn't lowering your CAC or improving win rates, it is just expensive noise.

In this episode, Brent takes us inside Upwork's sophisticated growth engine. He reveals how they used Times Square billboards not for mass awareness, but as a "strategic weapon" to target a specific group of 200 investors. He also shares an unexpected lesson in consistency from a Detroit personal injury law firm that became a cultural icon.

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Guest Bio

Brent Bowles is the Senior Director of Growth at Upwork, the world’s leading work marketplace. Based in the San Francisco Bay Area, Brent oversees the paid acquisition and growth teams that drive Upwork’s client acquisition engine. His remit covers a massive portfolio of channels, including paid search, social, podcasts, CTV, and affiliates.

Before joining Upwork, Brent served as VP of Digital Marketing at Wells Fargo. There, he helped transform the bank's performance marketing from early experiments into a nine-figure annual operation. He specializes in scaling complex marketing ecosystems in regulated and competitive industries, balancing strict compliance with aggressive growth targets.

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Key Takeaways

Brand Is Not Vibes, It’s Math: Brent rejects the notion that brand marketing is unmeasurable. He views brand as the "operating system for demand." It must account for itself through Media Mix Modeling (MMM) and its ability to improve the efficiency of lower-funnel performance channels.

OOH as a "Strategic Weapon": For Upwork’s Investor Day, the goal wasn't broad reach. They bought expensive media on the NASDAQ building to target a specific room of 200 analysts and investors. It was a precision strike designed to create a "spectacle" and control the narrative for a single day.

The Sam Bernstein Lesson: Brent breaks down his favorite example of Out-of-Home (OOH) effectiveness: The Sam Bernstein Law Firm in Detroit. By blanketing the city for decades, they turned a succession plan (father to children) into a public storyline. The lesson: absolute consistency creates cultural trust.

The Integrated Portfolio: Upwork allocates 10-15% of its budget to experimental bets. The rest funds a core set of channels that feed off each other. When brand and performance are siloed, you lose the portfolio effect where one channel lowers the cost of another.

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Quote of the Episode

"I think it's disingenuous to think of brand as something separate from performance. It's all linked. Think of brand as the operating system that drives demand. When it works, it should boost performance. And when it doesn't work, it's just expensive noise... It's not vibes, it's math."

- Brent Bowles

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Key Moments

1. The Upwork Engine: How Brent manages growth across paid search, social, and CTV.
2. The "Strategic Weapon": Taking over Times Square for Investor Day.
3. The Philosophy: Why brand is the operating system for demand.
4. Creeping back into brand spend through rigorous measurement.
5. A Detroit Masterclass: What tech companies can learn from personal injury lawyers.
6. Frequency vs. Spectacle: Comparing long-term saturation to one-off events.
7. Using data to precision-target physical ads.

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Links

1. Connect with Brent on LinkedIn
2. Upwork
3. Connect with Charlie Riley
4. Connect with Greg Wise
5. OneScreen.ai

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