It didn’t matter if Gary Schanman worked in the mailroom at MTV, he just wanted to be in the media industry. Gary’s career path may not have turned out exactly the way he pictured it as a 19-year-old advertising major, but one thing he knew for certain was that showing up and having confidence at work matters. 

Gary is now the Executive Vice President of Video Services at DISH TV and Sling TV. He’s spent more than 20 years in the media and telecommunications industry and has had a front row seat to some of the biggest media disruptions in recent history. 

Breaking Schemas co-host and Michigan Ross marketing professor John Branch sits down with Gary to chat about the invaluable lessons he learned on dealing with imposter syndrome, the power of an MBA for career pivots, and the importance of adaptability in the media industry.

*Breaking Schemas is a production of the Yaffe Digital Media Initiative at Michigan Ross and is produced by University FM.*

Consulting for big companies takes fortitude and confidence. 

08:37: You, kind of, have to fake it until you make it a little bit, but not think it sounds wrong. What you have to do is realize that you're just as smart as anyone else in the room. You can use deductive reasoning. You could use inductive analysis. You can do a number of things to say, this is what I think the best bet is and then be comfortable with the fact that it may not be right, but it's smart and thoughtful.

The key to entrepreneurial success.

15:33: It's funny how agility sometimes is the key to entrepreneurial success. It's not the original idea, it's the ability to pivot when you have that aha moment. I remember working with a company which manufactured one of the most boring products you could imagine, very large brake components for trains and tractor trailer trucks, right? And it was a German company which installed software to collect data from the braking systems in order to improve the quality of the braking systems. And then one day, light bulb moment, they realized that this data we're actually more valuable to fleet managers and safety managers at large companies because the data told these folks not about the quality of the brakes, but about the driving habits. 

What’s next on the horizon of media disruption?

20:13 The future is really this race for aggregation. It's the best of times in the worst of times, all the choices in the world. You can't even keep up with the quality of peak streaming, of the quality of content out there. TV shows are better than movies, but it's very hard to manage it. It's actually becoming very expensive now because each company, because they're all trying to do it on their own, all have these, the equivalent cost structures, because no one can actually lean on each other for what's best. And so, there's going to be this reworking, which is there's going to be massive consolidation because individual media companies can't compete because they need scale. It's going to be a massive race for re-aggregation. Find a single place where I can get everything I want that's going to require data sharing, which no one wants to give up. It's going to require ego, put in a way, because media is a very ego-driven business and a prideful business. And it's going to require a re-establishment, in my view, as a biased distributor, re-establishment of the partnerships that made the business strong in the first place.

• Professional Profile at Dish

From a young age while growing up in Jamaica, Knox Cameron knew he wanted to be a professional soccer player. In order to make that dream come true, he knew it was all about having the right mindset. 

Knox went on to become one of the top players for the University of Michigan when the program was just getting off the ground. He set the bar for the level of excellence expected on the team, and it’s what propelled him into the MLS. After a shining career in professional soccer, Knox pivoted and set his mind to a new task: being an all-star player in the energy sector for DTE. 

Knox joins Breaking Schemas co-host John Branch to chat about his soccer career at the collegiate and professional levels, the startup-like environment of the MLS, and how he’s brought that entrepreneurial spirit to the energy world with renewable programs like MIGreenPower.

*Breaking Schemas is a production of the Yaffe Digital Media Initiative at Michigan Ross and is produced by University FM.*

• Knox Cameron on LinkedIn
• Knox Cameron’s University of Michigan soccer profile
• DTE’s MIGreenPower

Knox’s first leap toward breaking the mold.

[03:49] I was a highly recruited athlete coming out of high school. I could have attended one of a number of great soccer institutions and programs and continued with their legacy, and so on and so forth. But for me, it was an interesting opportunity to be able to lead a startup essentially, right? It was a startup organization that was labeled a men's soccer team, but we had the backing. So, you could think about your VCs in some capacity. That, to me, is the background, that is, the institution. That is the University of Michigan. So, I knew I had the comfort, the network, the community of Michigan behind me, but also knew I had this incredible opportunity and responsibility to set a pathway that was brand new.

Innovating business models in the electricity industry through MIGreen Power.

The program was launched because DTE, we knew, one, we need to construct renewable energy to support this clean energy transformation in time. But the program is interesting in that you can go to private subscribers who want these renewable energy attributes and we'll pay for it separate and aside from the utilities broader general rate base of customers. So, it introduces an incredible value proposition in that you can develop, construct, help the utilities earnings profile, which helps all of its investors, and that's a beautiful thing. You can help the end-use customer who wants these environmental attributes, and while doing so, you can help your affordability benefits to your non-subscribing customers.

Kicking off a new career: From all-star player on the field to all-star player in the energy sector.

[18:08]: As I completed my undergraduate degree and then pursued the career, Energy and the Utilities came to mind. DTE provided me an opportunity to learn and grow fundamentally, and I've spent the greater part of 15 years on developing my career, learning the industry, and serving at a company that has been around for hundreds of years, over 150 years, in fact. So, I think we certainly checked the box there from a safety and security perspective. I then sort of had the same set of mindset and pursuits as when I was actually on the field. Hey, what does it take to be a first-team performer now in the energy and utility sector? What does it mean to be the Big Ten Player of the Year? What does a first-team all-American performer look like? And then, what is a failed professional soccer career and all of the learnings? How do you put that also into the mix to deliver on what it is that you're doing today? That's the mindset, John, as I think about the work at DTE. 

Some brands are so iconic to the American family that the passion for them is passed down generationally. Scott Hegstrom knows all about those kinds of brands. 

With a marketing degree in hand from Michigan State University, Scott started his career journey at the household appliance juggernaut – Whirlpool. Through the company’s innovative leadership development program, Scott went on to lead KitchenAid’s Stand Mixer unit, and learned how to harness the consumer’s passion for a product. Now at NIQ, Scott leverages his market insights in the tech and durables sector.

Scott joins Breaking Schemas co-host John Branch to discuss his experiences at Whirlpool, emphasizing the value of rotational leadership programs and direct consumer interaction, what the transition was like to the private equity-funded company SVP Global, and how passion has underlined the disruption in all of his work. 

*Breaking Schemas is a production of the Yaffe Digital Media Initiative at Michigan Ross and is produced by University FM.*

How Scott launched his career from an internship at Whirlpool

02:45 I started what they called the Consumer Appliance Care Leadership Development Program. And what that was, was a rotational. Every time you get good at something, 12 to 18 months later, they plucked you out and they made you go learn something different. So, really big investment from the company that really made sense across multiple functions, whether that was procurement or finance. I ended up in the consumer services portion of the business, which is really where I had a great opportunity to learn the consumer at the very onset of my career at Whirlpool. 

On understanding your consumers

Empower those individuals with the ability to solve the customer's problem, and then also ride along with the service technician, like, you can learn a lot by looking at your computer, of course, of the metrics, but at the end of the day, what that taught me is get out of your desk environment, go sit with a call center agent where you're listening to consumers directly, and you'll learn as much or more than the 250, 000 research project that tells you how good you are on a dashboard.

What surprised him after shifting from OEM to agency

I think what surprised me the most was even if you have retailers that on paper look virtually identical, like if you asked somebody at a dinner party, what the difference between CVS, Walgreens, or Rite-Aid, like, oh, they're pretty much a similar business, but the needs of organizations, even if they seem similar on the surface, are dramatically different. And I think the biggest thing for me to understand was how to probe with questions on the front end, how to understand their needs, and then tailor our approach to be very custom to what those retailers need at any point in time. And then also understand that that might change. 

• Scott’s LinkedIn

What does it take to become the Anthony Fauci of the University of Michigan?

When COVID-19 hit, Dr. Rob Ernst was tapped to lead the school’s response. As the Chief Health Officer for the university, he prioritized maintaining core critical operations in order to provide healthcare for the whole region. For Dr. Ernst, commitment to caring for his community is key.

Dr. Ernst chats with Breaking Schemas co-host John Branch about how mentorship and the courage to take non-traditional paths have shaped his career, his approach to navigating the school’s pandemic response, and how he views commitment as a disruptor.  

*Breaking Schemas is a production of the Yaffe Digital Media Initiative at Michigan Ross and is produced by University FM.*

• University of Michigan profile

A mentor’s wisdom: Take the chance, even when you feel unready

07:36 My belief is that if you've got a really great opportunity and you don't feel like you're ready for it, take it. So, I don't know if he was talking about that more generally or about he was just trying to say that I was actually more ready than I thought I was, but I actually have behaved that way in a number of other capacities throughout and tried to not be afraid to try to blaze a new pathway even if it seems like a non-traditional pathway.

Making tough calls during the COVID pandemic

16:07: As a trained general internist, I think, compared to many, I have a much higher comfort level with uncertainty, and even making hard decisions with incomplete information is what we do in medicine, right? I mean, you gather information, you do some deeper digging with some tests or studies, or something. And then, you don't know exactly what you're up against most of the time or often. And you still make some decisions about, let's try this, whether it's some kind of procedure or medicine or some non-pharmacologic treatment, and then get back together and see how it's going. Maybe there's some new information and you shift and things like that. And we don't blame ourselves for not having been able to see the future with incomplete information. And we just trust our experience and our judgment, weighing its risks and benefits. And that's just how we behave. And I have a really high comfort level, and practicing that way and that was the course through COVID.

How Bob Quinn’s writings shaped Dr. Rob Ernst’s leadership style

27:29: The temptation for us as humans is to tinker with problems and add here, reclassify that position, move that person's blah, blah, blah, as opposed to just saying, "If we were trying to solve this problem from scratch, how would we do it?" And then, just oftentimes, it's a completely different approach.

For four-time franchise CEO Dave Keil, it’s all about scaling companies for good. A few years back, Dave had a hypothesis that if you applied the same processes and operations of franchising commercial businesses to nonprofits, you could scale them just as successfully, and with massive positive impact.

This is how Franchise for Good was born. Before that, Dave spent his career leading and growing businesses like HoneyBaked Ham and Pure Barre where he fell in love with the art of franchising. Now, he’s bringing those lessons to the nonprofit world and unlocking potential for organizations to scale their missions. 

Dave chats with Breaking Schemas co-host John Branch about his career journey from engineer to franchise CEO, how he has helped grow franchise brands through incubators like Franworth, and how he plans to disrupt the nonprofit space with the franchising model. 

*Breaking Schemas is a production of the Yaffe Digital Media Initiative at Michigan Ross and is produced by University FM.*

His first CEO job

05:02: I ended up going and leading three different franchise companies as chief executive. So, the first one was the Honey Baked Ham Company. A family held company who had been operating for 59 years. I had been on the board. They needed an M&A person and someone that knew CPG because their desire was to move. They had shops that they sold hams in, but they wanted to expand, and they wanted to go into grocery. And they were needing to do some M&A’s. So, I went in. I'd been on the board and saying, “Guys, you got to bring this together. We're leaving a bunch of money on the table.” And they finally convinced me to come join.

Only 16% of all franchisors make money

12:00: The secret in franchising is that there's only 16% of all franchisors that actually make money. And franchising, as you know, it's not just McDonald's. It's every fast food on the planet. It's every hotel. It's every boutique fitness, every boutique beauty business there, every service-based business. Molly Maid, Mr. Handyman, Garage Kings, those types of businesses are all franchises. So, it's a great way to scale and replicate, but it's hard to do only 16% get to that 100 mark. And that tends to be the number, John. If you can go and get 100 units open, then you have a successful franchise.

Disrupting the franchise business by taking off the hurdle of half a million dollar net worth

25:39: We're building what we're calling Beloved Brands, our seven brand portfolio. And we're removing $500,000 as the hurdle to buy a franchise. We're going to test for your competence as a leader. Yes, you've got to be fiscally responsible. Yes, you're going to have to show leadership capabilities and be able to follow a system and lead a team and go deliver milkshakes or garage floor coating, whatever that is, but honestly, we were using half a million bucks of net worth as the proxy for your ability to be a great owner of a business. And that's not right. What it should be is testing for grit and leadership skills and fiscal responsibility. So that's what we're changing.

• Dave’s website
• Franchise for Good
• Franworth

There’s a key component of venture capital that puts the soul in that kind of work: investing in people.

Sheel Mohnot, founder of Better Tomorrow Ventures, understands this well when he’s picking which fintech companies to invest in. A University of Michigan graduate, Sheel has built his career on being able to identify founders who are willing to take risks and believe in themselves. 

Sheel joins Breaking Schemas co-hosts Marcus Collins and John Branch to chat about what investing in people looks like in action, Sheel’s philosophy for venture capital, and how a willingness to try things can lead to the most unexpected outcomes – like a Taco Bell-sponsored wedding. 

*Breaking Schemas is a production of the Yaffe Digital Media Initiative at Michigan Ross and is produced by University FM.*

Believing in better tomorrow
18:07: I believe that the future is easier, is making finance easier. Now, how we get there, I'm not exactly sure, but I believe in that future. And that future is a better tomorrow. Why we called the fund Better Tomorrow? It's like we're investing in a better tomorrow, better future for everyone around us.

And then there's a secondary meaning, which is we want to improve ourselves. We want to get better. “Next time I do this, it should be better than the time last time I did it.”

Do not be afraid to fail

08:59: If you're afraid of failure, you'll never do anything. And I think I've been fortunate that I was a little bit born with it—that I'm not afraid of failure. I know the worst thing that could happen is not that bad… [09:48] The reality is there are so many failures along the way. And you just can't let it get you down.

The crucial traits of founders

10:00: There are two things that I think of as super important founders. One is iterating. And so that's like trying stuff. And that's where this first thing that we're talking about comes in. And you have to just keep trying stuff, and eventually stuff will work. Something will work. But there are people who are just too afraid to try. That's when things don't work out with the founder. So I'd say now that we're on this topic, things that I think are important. So speed of iteration, what we're talking about, like trying stuff. And then tenacity—like you have to break through walls to make it happen. It's the other thing. Those two things, I think, are critical for founders.

• Better Tomorrow Ventures
• Sheel Mohnot on LinkedIn
• Couple Marries in Taco Bell 'Metaverse' Ceremony: 'Fun, Romantic and More Than a Little Weird' | People
• Love In The Metaverse: Taco Bell's First Virtual Wedding And Interview With Sheel Mohnot And Amruta Godbole | Taco Bell podcast

As an accounting major trying to break into the media and entertainment industry, Devin Johnson heard the word “no” a lot. But the now-president of Lebron James and Maverick Carter’s SpringHill Company found his way into the creative world through finance jobs. 

That versatility is sewn into the fabric of SpringHill’s mission; it’s a place where accountants can make creative content, too. Devin says that mindset and culture are built on empowerment. Empowerment from Lebron James gave him the confidence to step into his role, and he wants to instill that kind of empowerment in his employees. 

Breaking Schemas host Marcus Collins sits down with Devin to chat about his journey from accounting to leading a major content company, how the SpringHill Company fosters a diverse and empowering culture, and why having an “irrational expectation of success” leads to amazing things.

*Breaking Schemas is a production of the Yaffe Digital Media Initiative at Michigan Ross and is produced by University FM.*

Just because your job title, says one thing doesn't mean that that's the only thing that you can do

14:28: We're constantly trying to find ways to make sure that people live beyond their job title, and if you're in the accounting group, that doesn't mean that your social can't be popping. And that doesn't mean that you may not have an idea for a digital series or for social promotion for one of our shows, or whatever the case is. So, we want to listen. We keep our ears and eyes open.

On embracing the process

22:10: A mindset that I've had to adopt over time is that you have to fall in love with the process. So when something's not working and something's hard, you just keep working at it, and those become the ethos of the company because we've seen our chairman do it. I've seen our CEO do it. And so it's my job to make sure that gets translated to the person that's working on growing one of our brands that you got to be okay. You got to fall in love with the process of growing that. It doesn't happen overnight. It's all the nights that you're putting into it, and no one's watching you.

There is value in the struggle

31:12: There are no perfect institutions, just perfect intentions. Companies will sometimes miss your genius, promotions, and acknowledgements. And all the things that you're looking for may not happen on your timing, but see the value in the struggle. Every bad moment in my career has been followed, or was followed, by something bigger and better. And I just think if you focus on continuous improvement, try to get 1% better every day, good things will ultimately happen to you.

• The SpringHill Company
• Devin’s LinkedIn Profile

The Japanese phrase, ikigai, refers to one’s reason to live. Devon Leahy, the global head of sustainability at Ralph Lauren, found her ikigai at a young age on the ski slopes of Vermont: the outdoors and environmental issues. 

Devon took that passion, merged it with a business degree from Michigan Ross, and began crafting what these corporate sustainability roles could look like for major companies like Walmart and eventually Ralph Lauren. 

Breaking Schemas hosts Marcus Collins and John Branch sit down with Devon to discuss what a global head of sustainability does, why sustainability needs to be embedded in the fabric of the corporation and not just a PR campaign, and what the future holds for sustainability in the fashion industry. 

*Breaking Schemas is a production of the Yaffe Digital Media Initiative at Michigan Ross and is produced by University FM.*

How Devon’s childhood in Vermont shaped her passion for the sustainability

05:04: I really came into the corporate world and into business with a background and passion for environmental issues. I grew up in northern Vermont. I was a skier. I spent a lot of time outdoors. I started asking my parents why we were seeing forests degraded by what at the time was acid rain that I could see from the ski lift in my little hometown in the northern part of Vermont. And it was those moments, those sort of pivotal experiences, that became touchstones in my career.

Communicating impact in the sustainability space

13:29: As our disclosures of environmental and social data become very looked at the same way as our financial disclosures, we have to be very mindful of how we communicate our impact, what numbers we use, what KPIs. And so it's this balancing within the guardrails, like how we still meet and deliver or exceed our stakeholders expectations and continue to find ways that this work creates value. 

Follow what your internal compass tells you

18:34: I think it's important to talk to outside voices that know you and also give you good advice. But, at the end of the day, you really have to follow what your internal compass tells you.

• Devon Leahy on LinkedIn

When Ann Arbor rap darling Mayer Hawthorne first moved to LA, he thought his hip hop producing and DJing was going to launch him into stardom. But some honest feedback made him realize that maybe his real strength was waiting in a completely different direction.

Mayer used his musical agility to put out several smash hit soul records that didn’t sound like anything else at the time. He dared to disrupt his own sound and the result was magic. 

Breaking Schemas co-hosts Marcus Collins and John Branch sit down with Mayer to talk about his journey from hip hop to soul, why it’s important to bend to the opportunities that come your way, and staying true to your authentic voice.

*Breaking Schemas is a production of the Yaffe Digital Media Initiative at Michigan Ross and is produced by University FM.*

How can you make it in the music or entertainment business?

03:15: My only advice that I usually give to anybody who asks me, like, "How can I make it in the music business or entertainment or whatever?" is, work hard and be different. 'Cause we already got Drake, and we already got Clinton, and we don't need another one. We don't need another Travis Scott. There's already a Travis Scott. So you're never going to be as good at doing Travis Scott as he is. Just do something only you can do and something that you can do better than everybody else. And that is the way to do it.

The power of asking for help

32:24: Find people who know more than you and learn from them. Try to just add, reach out, and say, "Hey, will you teach me how to do this?" It's hard. It's hard because, like, you don't want to admit that you don't know something. But getting over that is one of the craziest lessons in life. When you don't know something, don't just pretend like you know it. Go find someone who knows and be like, "Yo, how do you do this?"

On embracing the fun

14:49: Anytime we had a decision to make, like a big decision about a career thing, like a fork in the road, we always weighed the options and would always go with whatever choice was more fun. And that was a big philosophy. That we had from the very beginning and that we still embrace to this day. You know, we got offers for two different shows; it's whichever one is going to be the most fun. That's the one that we do.

• Mayer Hawthorne official website

Who says prioritizing fun in your career isn’t a smart move? 

Marketing mogul Karima McDaniel has worked with every kind of beauty product under the sun. She made all the right moves to climb ladders at major companies and build a successful career. But at the top, she found herself wanting more. She wanted to find a job that aligned with her values, and on top of that – she wanted to have fun at work. That’s how Karima ended up in a meeting with actress Tia Mowry who was starting a hair care line centered around textured and naturally curly hair. 

Now the president of 4U by Tia, Karima joins Breaking Schemas host Marcus Collins to chat about disrupting the beauty industry, making an impact for women of color, and why having fun at work should be prioritized. 

*Breaking Schemas is a production of the Yaffe Digital Media Initiative at Michigan Ross and is produced by University FM.*

In finding an organization, figure out where your style is celebrated

23:58: I remember having this conversation with myself: where everybody likes me, but I'm no one's favorite. And I think that's a dangerous place to be in an organization because that means you don't have the right sponsorship. And so if somebody has to go out on a limb, is it going to be for you? And if you can't identify who those people are, it's probably time to either go build those relationships or leave because it's going to slow you down in your progress.

Embrace the art of self-promotion

27:52: Learning and not shying away from the art of self-promotion—that's not something that is intuitive to me. Like, I feel like it's kind of icky to do it. You hate when other people do it too much, but it is a really valuable skill in figuring out how to do it in the right way. Because I think you'll spend a lot of your early career having your ideas taken from you, or other people get credit because you're not actively claiming credit for the things that you're doing. And so, how do you do that in a way that feels authentic to you and not think of it as a bad thing? And it took me a while to figure that piece out.

You have to be your own cheerleader
29:23: There's like that moment when you realize you're sitting in a room; at some point, you're going to realize, "No one actually knows more than me." Again, it's like I hit you at a moment when you're like, "I actually probably know more than most people in this room." Like, what have I been waiting for? And even, I don't know when that starts, but it's like, "Oh, I wish, I wish everybody could un-teach themselves that," as they're kind of starting their careers. Like your perspective is your perspective, and it's valuable. And people do not know more than you. They're just more confident in how they express their ideas.

• 4U by Tia
• Karima McDaniel LinkedIn