This is our 17th episode of the Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy. We will discuss integrity as applied to whiskey and the craft cocktail recipe - Island Sailor. This podcast episode features Whiskey Maker - Doug Hall and Whiskey Drinker - Tripp Babbitt.

 

Show Notes

[00:00:04] Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy - Bringing Integrity to Craft Whisk(e)y

[00:00:37] The Debate in the Craft Whisk(e)y Industry

[00:03:02] Old-Style Approach  - Age is Only Way to Have Integrity

[00:03:13] What BBWA Focuses On to Bring Integrity to Product

[00:04:50] BBWA - Complex, but Clean

[00:06:15] Good Enough to Sell - Is Not Integrity

[00:08:23] The Trend Back to Craft

[00:09:42] Cincinnati was the Heart of Whisk(e)y

[00:10:15] The Whisk(e)y Maker has More Value Than the Distiller

[00:11:44] Craft is Growing

[00:12:41] Craft Cocktail Recipe - The Island Sailor

[00:12:54] The Story

[00:14:19] Island Sailor - Step 1

[00:14:28] Step 2

[00:14:31] Step 3

[00:14:34] Step 4

[00:14:36] Step 5

[00:14:40] Step 6

[00:14:50] Step 7

 

 

Transcript

Tripp: [00:00:04] This is the Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy podcast where we're going to take you behind the scenes on what it takes to build a whisk(e)y  distillery business. The Eureka ranch team led by Doug Hall are creating a craft whisk(e)y  Company like has never been done before.

 

Tripp: [00:00:26] Bringing integrity to the craft whisk(e)y  business. Now you've touched upon it a little bit in our conversation so far. Well how are you bringing integrity to craft whisk(e)y .

 

Doug: [00:00:37] Well I'm going to I first off confront this issue I'm going to confront the issue as to what is integrity and a craft spirit because there's a lot of debate there's a lot of debate amongst the craft world especially in the spirits world as to what is a true craft product. In other words they're debating it some some organizations have certified craft product craft you know all these things. And what is craft and this number of options. I mean one option is that it's a proprietor or proprietorship that that it's majority controlled some say 75 some say 80 percent controlled by an individual or individuals working in the business not by some major corporation. So craft is basically employee owned kind of thing. Another one is small volume. If you're tiny in the whisk(e)y business they call it under 100000 proof gallons is a definition is oftentimes shoes. So yes small volume. In other words one location. So you distill age and blend in one location. This is the way Scotland defines single malt is it it's made at one spot. And then the most extreme example a friend of mine does which is farm de glass where they he grows the grain stills ages and blends all in one one location and that's that's an extreme one.

 

Doug: [00:01:57] I guess he could go even more extreme and he could make his own electricity to you know so you can see there's a number of different places you could define it and well you could define what is a what what is a true craft company a crew crafts whisk(e)y  Company.

 

Tripp: [00:02:17] Ok. But you've missed one in here and you know I had a conversation about this and maybe it maybe you see it fitting in one of these. But you know I shared a conversation that I had on line with with someone they said Oh no. You know you I know what type of you know stuff is the Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy putting together because it's not aged you know in the traditional sense it's being built there and you and you shared a conversation that you had also in Cincinnati. Does that fit into. I mean from that person's perspective that's an integrity issue you know. Yeah. You got to age that in barrels for 15 years or 24 years or.

 

Doug: [00:03:02] And again I mean and that's that kind of one location or old style approach. OK. And and that's fine. And that's that's fine. That that could be a definition too.

 

Doug: [00:03:13] You know it really. So. So we've got these challenges on how we're going to define it. So how do you do it. Well my view is that craft comes from a person not a corporation at its most basic. It's about having someone as someone's who are connected directly to the work. Corporations can't be craft. I mean saying corporations with quotes around it only people can craft so that means there's a person now in the old days of Johnny Walker Jim Beam and Jack Daniels. There was that. There isn't any more they're owned by megacorporations now. OK. So when they were there it was craft. Today it's not. I mean that's just my simplistic definition to be craft. Somebody has to be doing the crafting. OK OK. The second thing is is there's a commitment to create products that are meaningfully unique because we've talked about in other words good enough is not craft. It's about have a caring and pride in the product. And oftentimes it's about you develop a host style. And if you don't like my product that's OK but this is what I'm doing. In other words is this you've made a statement you haven't tried to be all things to all people. You've made a choice that says this is what I believe to the world matters. And so this is what we do in our case. We really like to have complexity but clean. In other words we we try to as I've talked before we try to have the complexity of whisk(e)y  from the old country with the cleanness of new world bourbons.

 

Doug: [00:04:50] In other words so it's complex but clean. That's our house style. That's what I like. That's what we make. If you don't like that I'm cool with that but respect I'll respect yours. You just respect. That's my style. That's my house style that I like. That's what we try to do and we'll do collaborations with people that are different. But on our fundamental products that we put out under our name. That's what you're gonna see and every one of our product shows we're not doing it. OK. So. So there is this there are some lines about what you're going to be and then it's it's also lastly it's about honesty and transparency. But what you do and don't do. Okay. And and so if are you going to grow your grain. That's cool. Are you not going to grow your grain. You're gonna buy it from you know on the open market from conglomerates. Fine. Are you gonna buy it from family farms. Fine. You know whatever your choices are your choices. Don't try to lie that you're doing something else. Just be open about it. Okay. We can't do it all. We can't make our electricity grow our grain make our own fertilizer and do the whole thing. So we're gonna pick a place that we're going to apply our craft. You know the person who who makes furniture might specialize in a certain type of furniture. One person focused size maybe on the finish or the woods selected another one the intricacy of the cuts.

 

Doug: [00:06:15] Everybody's different. I respect them all. Same way with whisk(e)y . I respect what you're doing however you choose to do it. If you want to age it and you have a lot of money and you're able to age it for a long time. Awesome. I think it's great. We don't have that kind of money to go do that and it's tough but if you do great that's great. As long as you're making a great product that you're proud of not just something that's good enough to sell. That is not craft that's not craft now. In the case of brain brew custom whisk(e)y  I've decided to focus on the interaction of the wooden sphere. That's what we've gone deep on. So a friend of mine in Cincinnati buys grain from farms family farms and sells it. That's awesome. A friend in Nova Scotia actually grows the grain himself and then distills it. That's awesome for him. In my case my background 20 something years in this industry is that 70 percent of the flavor comes from the wood. And so that's where I focus. 25 percent is grain selection 5 percent and selling. Some people want to go focused on distilling some he wants to do grains. I want to do wood. Okay so I buy my spirit because I don't wanna waste my energy on that. I want to spend all of my time on making that whisk(e)y  taste as smooth and as complex yet clean as I possibly can.

 

Doug: [00:07:45] And so that's what I do and I don't use. We have rules we don't use chemicals we don't use colors we don't put in flavors we do it we do classic process. Same process just replicating seasons of barrel aging by using heat and cooling to do it.

 

Doug: [00:08:00] So that's my choice as a craft and I'm very open about that we don't hide anything we're very honest with it now. If at the end of the day you don't like that because you want to have something that's been aged for 10 years that's cool that's cool. But I've made my choices of what I want to spend my time crafting OK that's fair.

 

Tripp: [00:08:23] You know it's interesting as it is you know as we talk here about the the whisk(e)y and we've had conversations about this before you know that Cincinnati had a lot of distilleries at one point and it seems like we used to be this you know I guess you almost have this vision of the blacksmith the person who make things and craft their own metal and and things of that sort. And then we went through this industrial revolution where we kind of brought everything together to make more of it faster and cheaper. And now there seems to be this kind of trend to this kind of craft because people can't do it and do it. You know associate because of technology or whatever to be able to kind of separate it out into a making craft not only competitive but also tasty. In the case of whisk(e)y .

 

Doug: [00:09:23] Well that's right. There's more you can be more regional. I can take you know the oak from Manitoba and I can make a whisk(e)y  with that oak so they can taste it as opposed to getting the same wood as everybody else. I mean we're in a world where that diversity is celebrated.

 

Doug: [00:09:42] And but you're absolutely right. We went from a time when you know I mean Cincinnati was the heart of whisk(e)y  making on the planet more whisk(e)y  was made in Cincinnati plus the areas of the people in Cincinnati own many of the distilleries in Kentucky because it was the big commercial center.

 

Doug: [00:09:57] And collectively it was the heart of whisk(e)y  making on the planet. And this is this is really the volumes they were doing was just ridiculous. Seventy distilleries or rectify and now many of these people were blenders. They would they would buy whisk(e)y  and put it together. That's an artistry to put together.

 

[00:10:15] I learned recently you know we've talked before Tripp about distillers versus whisk(e)y  makers the whisk(e)y  maker takes the different barrels and puts it together whisk(e)y  makers are paid 65 percent more money than distillers are.

 

[00:10:31] So that gives you some sense how important the whisk(e)y maker is versus the distillery. Now it's not just that's just as important we have to do it but that's not where the value add comes the value add comes in putting those those barrels together in different ways. Now to be fair in Cincinnati its history is not all positive.

 

Doug: [00:10:48] You know pre prohibition and following prohibition there were some things that were done where people would throw stuff into the spirit the young spirit to make it drinkable. There was not always good for people. In fact it was very bad for people.

 

Tripp: [00:11:01] Oh yeah.

 

Doug: [00:11:03] And it's the same way the food industry I mean what Big Food did is it made food safer is it would be people growing food that was not necessarily pure and right. So so it's not all just always that nice to have that quaint organic farm. It has to be done with food safety and done properly. The difference is and so a lot of those things went away because the cost and quality was better with manufacturing. Now with new technologies and we know more it is now possible again for us to have craft that's giving us quality and value and not be the lowest common denominator so this is a resurgence that is growing.

 

Doug: [00:11:44] It's only going to get bigger as time goes on and it'll be interesting because I know we work with a lot of big corporations and don't get me wrong. You know we love big corporations and we love the people in particular within them the people because there are good people in these organizations looking to bring more craft spirit bring more caring in it. And many leaders are supportive of it. But sadly there are still too many that are not. And I'm optimistic though. I mean it's gonna change. It's gonna it's gonna change or we're gonna see. More of openness having integrity.

 

Tripp: [00:12:23] Well it's cool to see that you're part of that change. Yeah from my perspective just kind of watching you know some of things the things you patented. You know the way you're going about the wood those types of things you're bringing change to the industry by virtue of doing these types of things.

 

Doug: [00:12:39] Yeah. That's I mean it's we're trying to do.

 

Tripp: [00:12:41] Okay let's move to the craft cocktail recipe and it looks like you have a brain Brewer original here on the Island Sailor. You got to tell me about the name first.

 

Doug: [00:12:54] So the name is is named after my beloved Prince Edward Island. You know as you know I have Canadian and U.S. citizenship and we have a home in Spring Brook Prince Edward Island on the shore of New London Bay and we have a brain brew beach bar we set up every summer down there and. And so while we're up there playing and messing around I say well we got to celebrate the sailors and and the farmers. We have an island farmer as well where equal opportunity here and.

 

Doug: [00:13:23] And the. So this is designed to take you to the sand sun and sea.

 

Doug: [00:13:29] And it's perfect when you're looking to escape the winter blahs. So here we are middle of February. Got you sweetheart. It's Valentine's Day this podcast comes out. And time to just kind of chill out maybe put some island music on it and enjoy it.

 

Tripp: [00:13:49] I guess at the moment I sit here thinking February 14th in New England on a beach big overcoat on and making us drinkers something like I'd rather be in Florida or someplace. I don't.

 

Doug: [00:14:02] Take your mind to that spot.

 

Tripp: [00:14:04] OK.

 

Doug: [00:14:06] So the way it works is they take a Boston shaker. You remember what that is right. Oh yes I've got that drummed into my head. Not a cobbler shaker.

 

Tripp: [00:14:14] And now I remembered I had to look up the name of what the other ones called they call a cobbler apparently. That's right.

 

Doug: [00:14:19] Boston shakers are when we have the generally a glass and then a metal tube about the same size that you get a good throw with it filled with ice.

 

Doug: [00:14:28] Ounce and a half of our Relativity.

 

Doug: [00:14:31] Half ounce the sweet vermouth.

 

Doug: [00:14:34] Half ounce the Grenadines.

 

Doug: [00:14:36] And a half ounce of fresh orange juice. Give it a shake.

 

Doug: [00:14:40] Let's put it in a martini glass. You can do a rocks glass back. You can do the whole thing just on the rocks but let's add some elegance to it. So we're gonna shake it put it in a martini glass.

 

Doug: [00:14:50] And then a splash of seven up regular diet doesn't matter whatever is your taste preference. And if you're really going crazy some champagne or sparkling wine we'll take it even over the top. Even More. But it's just got some bubbly lots of fruit lots of character to it. The whisk(e)y  gives it some depth and a backbone to it. So it isn't just it's not a sugary drink. You know I think of this as Tiki done less sweet more cocktail like instead of sort of the Tiki sugared drinks that we've tended to get to as time's gone on. Right. And it's just kind of a fun lighthearted little bit a maybe some steel drum music to help you escape to the islands.

 

Tripp: [00:15:38] So it's the one thing I do want to cover off in the is just because I've gone to mixing these actually even at the Super Bowl I wound up doing the Bourbon Milk Punch that in episode 15. Now it was well liked especially by people who like you said don't drink whisk(e)y  But. But the one thing I have trouble with is because well for instance Relativity isn't in my area. What would be what would you recommend as you know other. Because I know you're favored towards the craft industry. Yeah I would be an equivalent to Relativity. Yes.

 

Doug: [00:16:19] So I would strongly strongly strongly recommend that you explore the craft spirits scene in your community and and and go to your local liquor store or actually just go to the local bars and just say who's who's got the best craft spirits whisk(e)y  is up there.

 

Doug: [00:16:36] They know they know the world. And so I would really suggest that you do that. Now if you're stuck in the middle of nowhere where there's no craft great craft spirit and certain areas of the country the north west of places really rich in it. There are some bear in parts of the planet where we haven't gotten there yet. And if you're really forced to do it then then if you're making cocktails bullet bourbon and rye is kind of the simple go to and if you'll see it in bars you'll see it on the menus oftentimes if you want it more whisk(e)y forward use the rye if you want it less so.

 

Doug: [00:17:19] Use the bourbon. But I mean and it's made by you know big gas company but it's not craft but it is. It's a good solid reliable practical prudent product. I've worked with them before. I know them they're good folks. The good folks at it and it is a good solid product for value for the money. And you know if you're stuck with it then try that.

 

Tripp: [00:17:50] Okay. But is Relativity then wait which with which grain is that is that.

 

Doug: [00:17:55] That's a four grain product that's that's more creative.

 

Doug: [00:17:58] That's the most one of the most inventive products that I created that product with with a friend John. And somebody had to do it two weeks of tasting to put it together but we literally use wheat corn rye and barley all four grains in it. So it's not a bourbon. It's not Scotch it's a whisk(e)y . It's an American whisk(e)y  we call it the new American whisk(e)y  and it literally takes all four grains and think of them as four notes that make up a chord that you might play on a piano. And we've made the four grains come together. There's some nice wheat in there that gives it an elegance to it truly elegance. I mean the big fancy bourbons are all wheat forward.

 

Doug: [00:18:39] You give us an elegence to it the corn gives it some mouth feel and a touch of sweetness. The Rye gives it just a touch base the way we do the Rye. It's not as spicy as it is richness. I think that our rye gives richness more than Spice. And then there's just a little bit of barley which is kind of like the bass note. It just it just balances it out and gives it a a bass note to it. So you got to eat at the top the corn and and then. I mean it's almost like an order. Wheat corn rye barley from the very latest sort of the high notes down through to the to the base notes and a lot of the surprise and a lot of the wheat in it but which is very difficult to work with. Well I mean to make it really work for you it takes a lot of work. We spent a lot of time with how we work the wood with the wheat particularly.

 

Tripp: [00:19:29] Okay. So long explanation there but it sounds like there really isn't an equivalent then to the Relativity product because it's kind of it's own category.

 

Doug: [00:19:38] Well let's let's go back a second I think earlier on this segment. I think I talked about a commitment to create products that are meaningful unique.

 

Tripp: [00:19:45] Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

 

Tripp: [00:19:51] Well starting your product what I and you get your product where I am then I must be in one of those beer barren places that you work well.

 

Doug: [00:20:02] We'll be everywhere soon and Relativity will have it at the ranch and here in Ohio and then maybe we'll work to get it over to Indiana soon.

 

Tripp: [00:20:10] Ok very good. All right. Well that concludes our Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy. Any final comments Doug.

 

Doug: [00:20:17] Yes. So the whole subject of this podcast is around this concept of integrity and it's not time to rant about it it's not time to complain about it it's not time to whine about it. Integrity comes from when we make a decision that we're going to live a life with integrity and I'm not saying it's easy. I'm not saying it's always the most popular thing to do but you know what integrity is when you look within yourself and you say that's what I've got to do. That's the right thing. And the good news is is this people to help. We've got a wonderful community of folks that we're teaching and there's a community growing up around the world some 35000 strong now which are focused on doing the right things in the right way. So thank you very much folks

 

Tripp: [00:21:11] Have you ever thought about owning your own craft whisky business. Well subscribed to the brain brew whisky Academy because in the early 2019 we'll be offering opportunities to start your own business whether you are an aspiring entrepreneur curious about innovation or just like a good story. The brain brew whisky Academy podcast will take you behind the scenes to learn the good bad and the ugly about what it takes to create whisky in the craft space which is growing at a crazy rate. Lessons learned can be applied broadly.