Is Drinking No Longer an In-crowd Kind of Thing?

Join Janet Hadley and Darren A. Smith in an all-new podcast episode on the British drinking culture. Hear why the British drinking culture has changed in the 21st century and its impact on how leaders encourage inclusivity in the workplace. Learn other cool things like the origin of beer and statistics on the leading cause of absenteeism and fights in the workplace.

You Can Read the Full Transcript Below:

Darren A. Smith:

Welcome to S***s and Giggles with HR. We are with the lovely Janet Hadley. How are you?

Janet Hadley:

I'm very well, thank you.

Darren A. Smith:

We've entitled this podcast or video if you watch it by video — this was Janet's idea — the Elephant in the well-being room. Is that right?

Janet Hadley:

That's correct. Okay.

Darren A. Smith:

I'm intrigued and I'm going to ask you more about that. But firstly, before we move on, why should we talk to you about British drinking culture? Because that's what I know our topic's about.

Janet Hadley:

So the reason why you should talk to me about British drinking culture is because I am on a mission to create a drink-safe workspace without killing the boss and that is what we do here at Choose Sunrise. I guess what brought me here is my own personal experience. I've worked in large corporations since all my jobs apart from my pay ground have been in large corporations basically.

Darren A. Smith:

Right.

Janet Hadley:

I've always been a big drinker. Those two things go very nicely together actually as it turns out. So I was a big drinker at school actually, from the age of 14. A big drinker through sixth form, a big drinker through university. I thought, do you know what? I'm going to have to calm this down a bit when I get my first proper job. I was wrong.

I had to dial it up a bit because when I joined the trading floor of a large supermarket whose head office is based in Leeds, I was quite shocked actually. It was such a boozy culture. So it suited me down to the ground at the time. We would be out from 4:00 PM till 4:00 AM on a Friday.

Darren A. Smith:

Oh. That's heavy.

Janet Hadley:

It's probably heavy, isn't it? I never saw anything wrong with it. It was almost a culture where you had to be part of that in-crowd in order to be considered for promotion.

Darren A. Smith:

Right. Okay.

Janet Hadley:

I do remember there being a couple of pregnant, well, not pregnant women. Well, there were pregnant women or people who were recently back from maternity leave who I feel so guilty for now knowing I was in this. But they weren't part of the in-crowd. They weren't ever out in the pub with us, and they were passed up for promotion.

There was a real culture of, well, they're only part-time and they're not really serious about their careers. It's a horrible toxic culture actually for someone to work in who has a young child. I actually do feel incredibly guilty now looking back on it and thinking about how I was part of that.

Actually, I mean, fast forward to a couple of years ago when I decided to stop drinking, which I've obviously missed out on. It's a huge amount of story.

I really only saw for the first time how much British drinking culture in the workplace had influenced me. I would never say it was my employer's fault that I developed a problem with my drinking. But it certainly didn’t hurt. If you wanted to create a culture where someone would develop a drinking problem, that would be it.

Many people develop drinking problems due to the drinking culture in the workplace

 

Darren A. Smith:

Okay. So there's a hell of a story there from heavy drinking. Now, you haven't had a drink for two years.

Janet Hadley:

Two and a half years. Nearly three.

Darren A. Smith:

Okay. You were by no means an alcoholic. You were just part of the drinking culture.

Janet Hadley:

Well, this is a very interesting question because there is no formal definition of an alcoholic. So I don't really use the term alcoholic. People tend to think that there are normal drinkers and there are alcoholics and there's not a lot in the middle. And the truth of the matter is that most drinkers are somewhere in that grey area in between those two ends of the spectrum.

Actually, sometimes what happens is, like, in my case, I had some really devastating news. So people do face death and bereavement and trauma and serious illness and things like that as they get into the forties generally.

Darren A. Smith:

Yeah.

Janet Hadley:

It can really, be for someone who's always turned to alcohol at the end of every stressful day or at every Friday night, or for every celebration and commiseration ever for their whole life. When you get some news like that, you end up drinking. My relationship with alcohol really changed, became much darker and it started to be a kind of drinking-to-forget relationship with alcohol rather than a drinking-to-have-fun relationship with alcohol.

I think that's, well, it is very common. There are all kinds of reasons why people find themselves in trouble with alcohol. And there doesn't have to be a reason, let's face it, it's an addictive substance that we are subjected to marketing on a daily basis. Active marketing, passive marketing, it's just everywhere.

It's no wonder really that some people find that they're having trouble controlling it. So I'm not sure about the word alcoholic. I'd almost argue that anyone who drinks regularly probably is something of an alcoholic because they keep drinking.

Darren A. Smith:

Okay. Alright. I'm intrigued by something particularly you said so far. So you said drink safe workspace.

Janet Hadley:

Yeah.

Darren A. Smith:

I've heard that before.

Janet Hadley:

Yeah. So that's a phrase that I've coined to describe what we do here at Choose Sunrise. I'm not in the business of telling people to stop drinking and to have teetotal workplaces. I am in the business of making the workplace a place where people can find support if they need it. I'm in the business of making the workplace more inclusive for people who choose not to drink.

I'm in the business of making the workplace somewhere that is psychologically safe for people to speak the truth about how they feel about their drinking and their relationship with alcohol. I run a  peer support group called the Sober Curious Society in the workplace.

Darren A. Smith:

So Curious. Yep.

Janet Hadley:

Yep, yep. That is a safe space where people can explore their relationship with alcohol, with no judgment in the workplace, with all the people who are their colleagues and peers, perhaps, you know, there'll be some senior leaders in there, there'll be some very junior people in there. Everyone's in there for the same reason.

They're interested in exploring their relationship with alcohol and potentially doing something to change it. They get all the resources that they need to do that if they wish to. There is no pressure for them to go sober or do anything other than turn up and listen and chat.

Darren A. Smith:

So, it's not as if you're a vegan society trying to stop the meat eaters.

Janet Hadley:

Exactly. It's about giving people a different perspective. When I was growing up, my heroes were people like Zoe Ball and Sarah Cox. I was a proper nineties ladette drinker, and all my role models were drinkers. My parents were big drinkers. All my relatives, like my friends, my everyone was a drinker. I never ever had any sober role models. I think that's true of a lot of people my age.

I think going into the workplace and being a sober role model and actually sharing stories about the journey to deciding to stop drinking in a workplace setting can be so important and inspiring for people. I get emails on a fairly regular basis saying, I saw one of your talks six months ago, nine months ago, two years ago, and it's only now that I've decided to stop, but I just wanted to say thank you because you were the first person I'd ever come across who like just told their story about stopping drinking.

It's so relatable for so many people, but it's become quite a taboo subject and people find it very difficult to say, I need some help with my drinking.

Darren A. Smith:

I get that. Well, we're seeing more and more sober October, Dry January.

Janet Hadley:

Yeah, February. Yeah.

Darren A. Smith:

I read the other day something like, there's a high percentage of millennials who don't drink. I got that right?

Janet Hadley:

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. There really are. One of the big factors that affect that is the rise of social media. So there is a real fear amongst younger people of drunk photographs appearing on social media and that has been an important change. You know, let's face it, if there'd been social media when I was that age, I don't think I would've had a career.

Darren A. Smith:

I would've gone out. Yeah.

Janet Hadley:

No, exactly. So there's that enough, but also you can't get served under 18 anymore. You need ID to get served everywhere. That certainly wasn’t the case when I was that age. Young people are much more health conscious. I've got teenage daughters and they go climbing and bouldering, they go to coffee shops, they go into town, they go shopping, but I don't stop them from drinking. They're allowed to drink. They just choose not to.

Darren A. Smith:

That generation, they seem much more aware than we were. They're aware of the planet, they're aware of what they're eating, aware of diet, that they're drinking water. I don't think I drank water until I was 35. Yeah. They seem much more educated. They know what they want.

Janet Hadley:

Yes, I agree. I think they've got the heads screwed on better than certainly I did at that age.

Darren A. Smith:

Feels like it. I've got a list here of questions. So we're going to do a quick fire round if that's alright. There're questions that people type into Google and they want to get the answer from an expert.