Today's guest is Ben Pleat

Ben is CEO and Co-founder of Cobu, a real estate technology company that is the leading community building platform built for multifamily. Cobu is live in over 85 cities and 34 states in the United States. Join Sam and Ben in today's show.

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[0:00] Intro

[1:04] The 3 questions

[1:42] What caused you to start Cobu

[3:50] The nuts and bolts

[5:15] How it all started

[7:23] The 4 pillars

[10:02] How Cobu monetizes

[11:33] Challenges in growing Cobu

[13:47] Scaling a distributed team

[15:18] What have you done well?

[17:28] Closing

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Connect with Ben:

Web: https://www.livecobu.com/

Email: [email protected]

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pleat/

Connect with Sam:

I love helping others place money outside of traditional investments that both diversify a strategy and provide solid predictable returns.

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HowtoscaleCRE/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samwilsonhowtoscalecre/

Email me → [email protected]

SUBSCRIBE and LEAVE A RATING. Listen to How To Scale Commercial Real Estate Investing with Sam Wilson

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-to-scale-commercial-real-estate/id1539979234

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4m0NWYzSvznEIjRBFtCgEL?si=e10d8e039b99475f

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Want to read the full show notes of the episode? Check it out below:

00:00:00:02 - 00:00:18:02

Ben Pleat

We really started building that into the software to enable residents to do that themselves. So for residents to create their own book clubs, for residents to create their own morgan groups, for residents to help other neighbors and do it in a way that was kind of crowdsourced. Right? That was organic. So our communities in Austin, Texas, are completely different than our communities in South Florida.

00:00:18:02 - 00:00:37:02

Ben Pleat

Completely different. Our communities. And, you know, Georgia, every community is unique in that way. What's not unique is the kind of attributes and pillars to how community building happens. So that's kind of the same. Obviously, the platform that delivers it is the same, but the actual content, the actual groups, the actual ways that residents engage the neighbors. I mean, it couldn't be more unique.

00:00:37:11 - 00:01:00:21

Intro

Welcome to the How to Scale Commercial Real Estate Show. Whether you are an active or passive investor, we'll teach you how to scale your real estate investing business into something big.

Sam Wilson

Ben Pleat is the CEO and co-founder of Kaboom, a real estate technology company that is a leading community building platform for multifamily. Kaboom is over 85 cities and 36 states.

00:01:01:00 - 00:01:02:06

Sam Wilson

Ben, welcome to the show.

00:01:02:18 - 00:01:04:16

Ben Pleat

Thanks for having me. Appreciate you guys reaching out.

00:01:04:20 - 00:01:13:02

Sam Wilson

Absolutely, Ben, the pleasure's mine. There are three questions I ask every guest who comes on the show in 90 seconds or less. Can you tell me, where did you start? Where are you now and how did you get there?

00:01:13:13 - 00:01:31:05

Ben Pleat

Yeah, we started CBU in Massachusetts. My background is in multifamily. We were just in one city at one state for for about a year. And we expanded now to about, like I said, 36 states, about 85 cities. And a lot of that's been in growth with our current customers who brought us to more parts of their portfolio. And we're in far as wide as places as California.

00:01:31:14 - 00:01:41:13

Ben Pleat

We were in Canada as well. We're in Texas and we're still based technically in Massachusetts. We have teammates all across the U.S. and eight states, so that's serving a good portion of the country.

00:01:42:00 - 00:01:58:09

Sam Wilson

That's awesome. I want to hear the kind of that process, how you were able to scale that. Obviously, that's been very strong. Keeping with the show. Before we get there, I want to hear kind of the backstory on why what caused you to found Cobu?

00:01:58:23 - 00:02:17:07

Ben Pleat

Yes, I'm one of the co-founders here at Kaboom. So Kaboom really came from more of a personal experience. My background in multifamily property management worked for a small mom and pop property manager in the New York area and really kind of learned the industry there. But I would say that the impetus or spark for Cobo came from more of a personal experience than what you you'll see my mom achieve her lifelong dream, which was to live in the city.

00:02:17:07 - 00:02:31:12

Ben Pleat

She immigrated to the States in the eighties and finally she had this dream of living in the city, and the thinking of it all grew to a beautiful building with amazing roof deck. All the amenities that you'd expect, right? American dream come true, visit her and basically scooped up a loan. She couldn't be a single person and it took a really big talent.

00:02:31:12 - 00:02:49:08

Ben Pleat

And she is like the most sociable, most gregarious, you know, extroverted, personal ever meet. And she couldn't do that in her home. And it looked as if she realized this was 61% of the U.S., according to Cigna, a bigger issue for younger people, for millennials and for Gen Z and frankly, kind of ironic, right, that we're more digitally connected than ever before.

00:02:49:08 - 00:03:06:02

Ben Pleat

And yet as human beings more disconnected and cope, it obviously didn't make any of that better. We realized that this is something that we can help deliver and along the way we realized that actually can solve. One of the things that I struggle has a property manager which was losing 30 to 60% of my residents every year. So roughly half my properties would leave turnover wise.

00:03:06:18 - 00:03:30:00

Ben Pleat

And the big issue and realized one of the best ways to build stickiness was to build more points of attachment. And we found that when you drive that struck me engagement is not just something that a resident wants. It's actually something that can help drive stronger a bunch of other ways. But retention being one key primary driver, and that was the kind of initial impetus for KO, which is all about empowering people to feel that sense of belonging and helping owners drive stronger engagement, retention and ultimately in a way.

00:03:30:15 - 00:03:31:09

Ben Pleat

Yeah.

00:03:31:09 - 00:03:50:07

Sam Wilson

Okay. So walk us through, I mean, because it's one thing to say, okay, here's how we as real estate investment firm acts are going to drive engagement. We're going to do these things. Here's our blueprint as we're going to go out to do to, you know, create community events, this and that. The other, I don't know. I mean, all the different things probably that you've already thought long through.

00:03:50:07 - 00:04:11:20

Sam Wilson

But it's another thing, I think entirely to say we're going to create a model that then can be replicated across anyone's property. I think that's that's a different a different ball. Ball of wax. There's a tell me, you know, what are what are some of the things that you guys think through maybe from a more just just nuts and bolts level on that community engagement side of things?

00:04:12:19 - 00:04:35:20

Ben Pleat

Yeah, absolutely. A lot of what we're trying to do is in a fully moderated, kind of fully safe environment, enable residents to to connect with their neighbors and create, you know, great community that drives that stickiness. So think of it as a running club, a mom group, a foodie group, marketplace buying, selling trading items, giving stuff away for free local recommendations, finding dog sitters, nearby cat sitters, very kind of common ways that you'll see residents use.

00:04:35:20 - 00:04:57:18

Ben Pleat

Kaboom. We typically specialize in in typically larger properties that we're finding like size is important. So our average size is right above 300 units. We typically recommend, you know, 200 plus unit properties. But what we're trying to do is in a fully safe environment via technology, enable those types of connections and to moderate everything, right. To make sure that everyone's playing nice in the sandbox and right and make it easy for the property.

00:04:57:18 - 00:05:15:00

Ben Pleat

So we kind of do it soup to nuts. And we know how much your property managers and teams you guys are working with are going through. So a lot of the lifting is on our end. We just have a couple small best practices that the properties do, but it's really kind of how do you put that on autopilot and make it actually happen in a way that you can scale across your portfolio?

00:05:15:09 - 00:05:28:11

Sam Wilson

Yeah, so so let's talk about that. Like how how did you get this off the ground? Because it's one thing, again, to do it for yourself. It's another thing to say, hey, here's the product and I can then sell this product to other property managers. How did you do that?

00:05:29:11 - 00:05:46:10

Ben Pleat

Yeah. So today we're in about 115,000 homes, give or take. We started at really just doing it manually, right. We wanted to learn how to build a community in these in these apartment properties. Right. So we literally would go to a property like do it ourselves. We'd hosted an event, we'd bring a bunch of residents together and we learned a couple of things.

00:05:46:10 - 00:06:05:16

Ben Pleat

One is that residents definitely wanted to engage with their neighbors. Right, too. As we learned, we had to make it really easy for the property team involved and we had to do it in a way that can scale across the portfolio. Right. You don't want just one something on one property, you want it across your platform typically. So I would say once we got the learnings of how we actually built communes, a lot of science on this stuff as well.

00:06:05:16 - 00:06:25:22

Ben Pleat

So we learned like we looked at the community science out there. What are the attributes of the strongest communities we found there? Four typical pillars I to go deeper into it if it's helpful. But we really started building that into the software to enable residents to do that themselves. So for residents to create their own book clubs, for residents to create their own board game groups, residents to help other neighbors in doing the way that was kind of crowdsourced.

00:06:25:22 - 00:06:51:01

Ben Pleat

Right? That was organic. So our communities in Austin, Texas are completely different, that our communities in South Florida are completely different. Our communities and you know, Georgia, every community and cocoa is unique in that way. What's not unique is the kind of attributes and pillars to how community building happens. So that's kind of the same. Obviously, the platform that delivers it is the same, but the actual content, the actual groups, the actual ways that resident engage with the neighbors, I mean, it couldn't be more unique.

00:06:51:01 - 00:07:04:02

Ben Pleat

Every property has a personality and every property you you likes to engage on particular subjects and sometimes it surprises you kind of what residents love engaging it. You know, you might find there's an active, you know, kitesurfing group in a place that you wouldn't probably expect, that.

00:07:05:11 - 00:07:23:07

Sam Wilson

Kitesurfing group in a retirement community, something like that. You're like, Oh, all right, cool. That's awesome. Tell me, I think that's really, really cool. I mean, again, you're building the framework and then crowdsourcing the kind of the kind of the filling in of the of the, you know, the details, which is, I think, a brilliant way to scale your business.

00:07:23:07 - 00:07:33:07

Sam Wilson

But I do want to hear what are those four pillars as someone's thinking about this just in general, what are those four pillars that you guys have found to be so instrumental?

00:07:33:07 - 00:07:47:16

Ben Pleat

Yeah. So again, a lot of it comes from the community signs out there. So one is membership. This idea of I need to feel like I'm part of something so the more tight you can down that membership. So being part of a property great. So you live at one on Main Street, being part of the one on Main Street Foods or the one on Main Street book clubs.

00:07:48:00 - 00:08:02:23

Ben Pleat

More boundaries you can kind of create that makes it specific. The higher the sense of membership through shared experiences. So this kind of you mentioned a couple of them earlier, like events you guys might be doing, just ways to engage, bringing people together could be something as simple as a grab and go. It's a type of shared experience.

00:08:03:03 - 00:08:21:01

Ben Pleat

Yeah. Number two three is needs to fill a community has to fulfill a need for you. So obviously in the properties we're serving, there's, you know, shelter, right? That's being fulfilled. But even something as simple as, hey, I'm looking for a recommended tailor in the neighborhood and looking for a recommended place to take, you know, friends or loved ones that are visiting in town.

00:08:21:01 - 00:08:42:21

Ben Pleat

So these a film, it is typically how most people start to engage with their community. And the fourth is mutual influence, which is I can make my community better, my community can make me better. So this is really enabling residents to to help shape their experience. So whether it's getting feedback that you guys are doing a value add, you know, CapEx project on a new amenity space or just soliciting ways to make the community stronger and a better resident experience.

00:08:42:21 - 00:08:45:00

Ben Pleat

So those are typically the four that we'll focus on.

00:08:45:05 - 00:09:02:08

Sam Wilson

Yeah. And I would think like you said on the, on the mutual influence side of things, that's a great way and correct me if I'm wrong here because I haven't actually used your platform, but it would be a great way for property owners to then find out what residents want, like you said, you know, kind of playing off.

00:09:02:08 - 00:09:15:17

Sam Wilson

What I mean is that am I hearing that right where they can come back and say, hey, you know, we're going to put in I don't know, I'm just making stuff up here because this doesn't make any sense for most communities to put in. But but golf in a, you know, in a some other amenity and they're like, no, none of us like putt putt golf.

00:09:15:17 - 00:09:19:22

Sam Wilson

And, you know, maybe a hot tub would be better. I don't know. I'm just throwing out ideas. Yeah, that's a great.

00:09:20:17 - 00:09:46:23

Ben Pleat

Absolute it's a great way to validate CapEx projects and kind of validate that having to spend 5000, 10,000 on, you know, a covered dog park. Right. Which sounds like a great amenity, but do residents actually want something as cheap as some additional benches? Right. It's a great way to not only get that insight and helps you make a better, more informed investment decision, but on top of that, it also helps kind of, frankly, gain some some trust and kind of gain some some buy in from the property residents that, you know, call that place home.

00:09:46:23 - 00:09:49:24

Ben Pleat

Right. So you kind of win both ways in that way.

00:09:50:06 - 00:09:56:15

Sam Wilson

Right? Because maybe nobody wants to cover Dog Park, maybe they want to be able to sunlight when they're walking their dog. Another dog, who knows? Who knows?

00:09:56:15 - 00:10:02:02

Ben Pleat

The more data information that you get, like what are people actually engaging around the more you're able to make informed decisions?

00:10:02:07 - 00:10:19:07

Sam Wilson

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think that's really, really cool. How, how do you guys even I mean, I wouldn't even know how to monetize this. Obviously I haven't because I know my business. But like you go to a community, say, like, how do you charge for it? How did how did you get your. Because it seemed like that would have been a big part of your kind of building.

00:10:19:07 - 00:10:25:17

Sam Wilson

The platform dilemma is like what's this worth to a 300 unit apartment complex.

00:10:26:10 - 00:10:47:11

Ben Pleat

Yeah. So typically, I mean like the main drivers of value, so to speak, are retention, right? So we're typically seeing resident engagement caboose or renewing at summer routine 10 to 17 percentage points higher renewal outcomes compared to those residents in the same property that don't. So there's kind of that retention benefit that you typically see. And time and time again, when we do that in stabilized communities and lease ups, we kind of see that outcome.

00:10:48:03 - 00:11:08:17

Ben Pleat

The second piece is around driving Google reviews. So when we have a really strong, engaged community, obviously online reputation is really important to us or worsens our prospects or are looking before signing a lease. And often in your properties you can actually generate a pretty significant amount of Google reviews. And Google does that through a platform just by asking kind of the engaged, happy residents at the right moment in time.

00:11:09:00 - 00:11:25:11

Ben Pleat

Mm. Those, those are kind of two of the three I would say components that we typically focus on. Obviously there are other ways to drive value in terms of information kind of giving kind of the data that we spoke about earlier. But in terms of like what the cost of the platform is, typically somewhere between 300 to about 600 per property per month.

00:11:25:11 - 00:11:32:17

Ben Pleat

This is the rough average. It depends on the size of the portfolio. It obviously depends on the size of the property, but that's kind of the typical range that you see.

00:11:33:00 - 00:12:07:13

Sam Wilson

Right, which is probably less than the cost of one turn turn over basically, correct? Yeah. Yeah. Right. And if you can, you can do to your property at 10% of that, you know, higher retention rate, that's 20 units a year that aren't turning over and make a lot of sense pretty quickly. So that's really, really cool. What have been some of the challenges maybe that you have faced and how have you overcome them as it pertains to growing Kobo and taking it really all across the country?

00:12:07:13 - 00:12:22:03

Ben Pleat

Yeah, I would say like the first challenge is like how do we build community at scale, right? So we spoke a lot about kind of the early learning, like how do we actually do that? I would say that that's not easy, right? The second piece that we face is like how do we moderate community in a way that makes sense for residents?

00:12:22:03 - 00:12:39:05

Ben Pleat

That's an experience that they're excited about, but also something that actually can exist in the context of of of where people live right there. Obviously, a bunch of hot button issues that residents might want to bring up. That code was obviously not meant for, right? Like, you know, code was not a space for residents to complain about. The property code was not a space to use profanity.

00:12:39:07 - 00:13:02:04

Ben Pleat

It was not a place to, you know, have a rent rent revolt, if you will. All these things are clearly not like what we built the platform for. We've really built it to enable residents to kind of feel that sense of belonging and a sense of connection with their neighbors. And so that definitely took a lot of time for us to kind of develop and learn into and we've kind of developed this really sophisticated platform that uses air and natural language processing as well as a team of humans to do that.

00:13:02:04 - 00:13:29:18

Ben Pleat

So I would say that that was definitely an important piece that was really important for multifamily context. In particular, how do how do we get the maturation rights? And that definitely took a lot of time and thought and process in terms of of expanding them. Most of our growth, you know, 60% plus has come from from current customers that bring us to to more parts of their portfolios that kind of like land expand model start with 3 to 5 properties, ten properties and then kind of continue growing within once you.

00:13:29:18 - 00:13:46:05

Ben Pleat

So success has really been where we focus. So we really haven't spent a significant amount of resource and like marketing, a lot of it's really been, you know, internal growth with companies that we're working with as well as word of mouth. It's a very relationship driven industry. And we love we love kind of earning the business, showing the value and then kind of growing from there.

00:13:47:00 - 00:14:06:18

Sam Wilson

How about scaling, scaling a team that there is not, you know, like it was like you've been talking all day long here. Golly, can't even think you're been but scaling a team is not you guys are aren't all right there in Boston you guys are across the country was the process been like for you like what's the word I'm looking for not scattered team had.

00:14:07:12 - 00:14:08:09

Ben Pleat

Like a distributed team.

00:14:08:13 - 00:14:16:09

Sam Wilson

Distributed thank you. Go live man. I can't think today. Like I said, yes. What's it been like, that process of scaling a distributed team? Thank you, Ben.

00:14:16:18 - 00:14:32:24

Ben Pleat

Yeah, obviously it's interesting. Like, like we're we're kind of spread out across, I think, eight states at this point. I think a lot of it just forces you to be a lot more intentional around culture, around kind of hiring for the people that share your values with you, that will kind of add to your culture. We always think about that as more of a culture add than a culture fit.

00:14:32:24 - 00:14:52:24

Ben Pleat

It's not like, Hey, who will fit our cultures? Hey will like push in advance and kind of make our culture stronger. I think a lot of us just being really thoughtful around having regular check ins, kind of frequency of interactions among among your team. We try to obviously spend time in person. We had inaugural event. This was around Labor Day, which was an amazing time just to come together in person.

00:14:52:24 - 00:15:08:20

Ben Pleat

So obviously in-person is an important component of that. But look, we're a community building company. Our name Kaboom literally stands for community building. That's what we do for properties. But the most important to me that we're building is the one here at Google. So yeah, taking a bunch of process learning are always trying to get better at it.

00:15:08:20 - 00:15:17:14

Ben Pleat

I would say by no means, Sam, are we perfect in that area, but that's the it's critical, right, cultural strategy for breakfast. So they say it's true.

00:15:18:02 - 00:15:29:05

Sam Wilson

Yeah, no, I can absolutely believe that. What about you personally as a co-founder and then leader of the company, what are some things you feel like you've done really well that other people should emulate when they are looking to scale.

00:15:30:12 - 00:15:48:19

Ben Pleat

The tough one? Sam I would say I think there's a lot that I could do it better, and I think I'm always trying to to grow and learn as a leader. I think kind of sticking true to the Northstar I think is really important. I think there are so many opportunities out there and there's always things that are presented to you and I can't tell you the amount of times that different types of, Hey, can you guys do this for that?

00:15:48:19 - 00:16:06:13

Ben Pleat

Or Hey, can you guys do it for for this specific niche and segment? And it's always exciting, always want to help. But I think focus is definitely really important. And you know, especially for teams that are growing in teams that, you know, want to kind of be best in the world at what they're doing, I think focus and saying no to things is sometimes more important than what you say yes to.

00:16:06:13 - 00:16:13:08

Ben Pleat

So I would say again, I don't think I've been perfect at that, but it's something I try to aspire to, to do better at. Hope is helpful to others too.

00:16:13:15 - 00:16:31:09

Sam Wilson

Yeah, man, we hear that all the time here on this show and I think you're probably a fourth or fifth person today that's told me that it's like focus. You've got to focus. And because I think as entrepreneurs, our challenges that we just see everything is opportunity. It's like if that opportunity is like now, maybe that's just a distraction.

00:16:31:09 - 00:16:32:22

Sam Wilson

Instead, it's a great.

00:16:32:22 - 00:16:47:21

Ben Pleat

Framework, the good to great frame work that box about this idea of like the hedgehog principle, it's like what is what is something you can actually be uniquely best in the world that what drives your economic engine. And I think the question of like what can you actually be best in the world? That is an important one, right?

00:16:47:21 - 00:17:11:08

Ben Pleat

Because if you can really excel and be best in the world at that, I think it's an important question to say, hey, should we focus elsewhere or should the focus be more narrow? Right. And I think sometimes a narrow focus gives you the opportunity to to go really deep and be really, really strong, kind of like a best in the world at something rather than like going really wide in a bunch of specific, you know, other areas that maybe you're not the best equipped to be to be in.

00:17:11:14 - 00:17:28:03

Sam Wilson

Yeah. No, no, I love it. Absolutely love it. Ben, this has been incredibly insightful. I love the way you guys have thought through COBOL, how you're building it, the need that you're serving in the industry, how it benefits owners, it also benefits your residents. I think that's something that and I talked to somebody else about this again earlier today.

00:17:28:03 - 00:17:50:04

Sam Wilson

It was just like, what is the right way to make the resident landlord property owner relationship you? How do you improve that? And it sounds like you guys are really working towards that in making it a more meaningful experience for the people that live in the communities that we own. So appreciate what you're doing and how you guys are putting that out there and really making a difference on that front.

00:17:50:04 - 00:17:56:01

Sam Wilson

Certainly appreciate that. One of our listeners want to get in touch with you and or learn more about Kobi. What is the best way to do that?

00:17:56:18 - 00:18:10:15

Ben Pleat

Yeah, absolutely. Sam, our website is live kogan.com. So i v kobe yukon. My email has just been live kogan.com. If you want to ask questions directly and definitely happy there to share more and see if may be able to help some of your portfolios.

00:18:10:23 - 00:18:13:20

Sam Wilson

Sounds great. Ben, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it.

00:18:14:13 - 00:18:15:23

Ben Pleat

Thanks, Sam. Appreciate having you on the show.

00:18:16:10 - 00:18:37:20

Sam Wilson

Hey, thanks for listening to the How to Scale Commercial Real Estate podcast. If you can do me a favor and subscribe and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, whatever platform it is you use to listen. If you can do that for us, that would be a fantastic help to the show. It helps us both attract new listeners as well as rank higher on those directories.

00:18:37:20 - 00:18:41:01

Sam Wilson

So appreciate you listening. Thanks so much and hope to catch you on the next episode.