Today we have Joey DeBruin on the podcast. Joey is the co-founder of Backdrop and has been a long-time conversation thought partner of Jess Sloss. We talk about Backdrop's initial intention when building and has that has evolved. The idea of impermanence when building web3 products and platforms vs. web2 platforms keeps users locked—the next season of tokenized communities and what incentive structures could change. And Insight into tokenization of SAS products and how Joey is thinking about it today.