How do you build environments complex enough to train agents that can handle the real web? Dr. Danielle Perszyk sits down with Jason Laster, an engineer leading Amazon's AGI Lab's effort to build reinforcement learning (RL) gyms— simulated web environments where agents learn—to explore how environment development is as critical as models, data, and compute. The browser is one of the most complex worlds we could possibly train in, and this conversation unpacks why high-fidelity simulations that capture every UI quirk matter more than building thousands of basic environments. Discover how RL gyms are finally becoming practical at scale, why observability and verifiable rewards are essential for rigorous training, and why simulated environments beat the real web for developing reliable autonomous systems.