After a year away writing my book, I'm back with more of the conversations that got me through it — starting with Miranda Bogen, founding Director of the Center for Democracy & Technology's AI Governance Lab and CDT's Chief Technologist.

Miranda has spent her career at the intersection of AI, policy, and civil rights — most recently leading responsible AI strategy at Meta, where she drove company-wide efforts to measure and mitigate bias in AI-powered products. Before that, she was a senior policy analyst at Upturn, where her research on algorithmic discrimination in advertising and hiring helped shape how the industry thinks about AI accountability.

We talk about what it actually takes to govern AI systems responsibly — inside a company and at a policy level — where bias creeps into machine learning, why technical fixes alone aren't enough, and what real, workable AI regulation could look like. Miranda's work has been featured in the Harvard Business Review, NPR, The Atlantic, Wired, and Last Week Tonight, and she brings that same clarity to this conversation.

This episode was co-produced by Jack Lucas Chang.