In this episode, Sara Drakeley interviews Bunnie Huang, security researcher, hacker, and entrepreneur. Bunnie wrote the book, Hacking the Xbox: An Introduction to Reverse Engineering. He also helped create Chumby, a consumer electronics product designed to be modified by users and provide hackable widgets. Bunnie and Sara dive into trust models and Bunnie outlines the challenges of developing evidence-based trust. Sara asks Bunnie for his take on secure enclaves and Bunnie explains why "you  shouldn't eat out of your toilet bowl." Sara and Bunnie puzzle the biggest security flaw of all - humans.