It’s a question so simple we can believe we haven’t asked ourselves before: Who is better, Tom Cruise or Ben Affleck? One of them, Affleck, dominated the box office last weekend with The Accountant. The other, Cruise (obvi), has a big weekend ahead with the release of Jack Reacher: Never Go Back. Both have had their tabloid ups and downs. Both have had careers that slalomed between popcorn movies and credibility pictures. But really, which Hollywood titan is better?

That’s what we set out to unearth on this week’s episode of The Monitor. And, man, did it ever lead to a heated discussion of who was Collateral damage and who was just Good Will Hunting.

Want to know who came out as our top gun? You’ll have to listen to this week’s episode of WIRED’s culture podcast. We’ve got writers and editors Peter Rubin, K.M. McFarland, and Angela Watercutter in the booth and they suddenly deeply care about who the biggest movie star in the world is. Stick around after the Cruise vs. Affleck face-off, because we’ll be discussing Ava DuVernay’s new documentary 13th and the rise of docs on streaming services. Enjoy!

A few helpful links for things we talk about in the podcast:

-The trailer for 13th

-Ben Affleck in our ranking of the best Batmen