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But What About...Hell
Episode 132 – But What About … Hell
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew, chapter 13, verses 40 through 42, New International Version
********
VK: Hello. I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. Today, we are coming to the final topic of our study series we’ve called “But what about” because a lot of time you hear questions like “but what about angels and demons” or “what about heaven and hell?” So far in our series we have discussed the angels, demons, the Angel of the Lord, and the Holy Spirit. Today, we’re going to begin our discussion of “but what about heaven and hell” with today’s show focusing on “but what about hell.” I’m in the studio today with RD Fierro, author and Founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, why did you pick these topics to feature on this “but what about series?” I suppose we could probably have picked any number of others because there are so many topics in the Bible that cause some level of confusion in the minds of many Christians. Why did we focus on the topics we did?
RD: Well, before we get started I want to say a word of greeting and thanks to all the Anchored by Truth listeners. Thank you for joining us here today. I think an astute listener …
VK: Which all of our listeners are!
RD: Agreed. We tend to focus on attributes of the Bible and Christian faith that often don’t get much coverage on some programs. We’re not criticizing – we fully understand there’s only so much any program can cover. But our focus is on helping people develop a strong intellectual framework for understanding the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God – and to do that means we have to talk about some subjects that are somewhat more esoteric – like why all arguments against the existence of God have logical failures or how real science demonstrates that the book of Genesis is literal history. At any rate, our listeners will have noted that all the subjects we have covered in this “but what about” series have to do with the supernatural dimensions of the Christian faith – or you might say the unseen realm.
VK: And the Bible is very clear that there is a very real but unseen realm. Colossians, chapter1, verse 16 says, “For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible …” The Christian faith is a faith that is anchored firmly in time and place but it also recognizes that the created order is not limited to the things that we can apprehend with our five senses.
RD: Right. And because the unseen realm is, well, unseen there is a lot of confusion and misinformation that circulates around it. That’s why we wanted to do this “but what about” series to focus attention on what the Bible says about many of the subjects that are normally part of the unseen realm – like angels – or heaven and hell. Today, we want to focus on the unpleasant topic first: hell.
VK: And I’m sure most of the listeners know that hell is the final destination for those who have rejected Christ as their Savior. The New Geneva Study Bible put it this way in one of their study notes: “The New Testament views hell as the final abode of those condemned to eternal punishment at the Last Judgment.” Why do you think it says the New Testament in that comment and not “the Bible?”
RD: Probably because the doctrine of hell is far more fully developed in the New Testament than it was in the old. It’s not that a place of condemnation for the unfaithful was unknown during Old Testament times. It certainly was. For instance, Job 24:19 says “As drought and heat consume the melting snow, so Sheol steals those who have sinned.”
VK: “Sheol” is one of three words that is commonly translated as hell in the Bible. The others are “gehenna” and “hades.” Sheol is from ancient Hebrew. The others are from Greek.
RD: Yes. So, the concept of an eternal division between the righteous and unrighteous was definitely present in the Old Testament but most of details we have about hell come from the New Testament. And surprisingly enough the Biblical figure who talked the most about hell was Jesus – and it’s from Jesus we get the clearest idea of the horror of hell.
VK: Like the images we get from our opening scripture where Jesus likens hell to a blazing furnace where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Weeping and gnashing of teeth are both expressions of sincere sorrow and regret. And since this quote is from Jesus Himself we know that it is accurate. In a way it’s not surprising that we learn the most about hell from Jesus because Jesus is the One who can save us from hell – so he knows what he is saving us from. It has been said that “God saves us from himself by himself for himself.”
RD: Right. And that leads us to one of the first concepts that we want to ensure that people understand. It is sometimes said that hell is the absence of God whereas heaven is where we will be in the presence of God. But strictly speaking this is not true. It is true that we will be eternally in God’s presence in heaven but in heaven we will be in the presence of God’s goodness, his beneficence. The people and demons who will be in hell will be in the presence of God’s wrath rather than His goodness.
VK: Now in our day and age the concept of God’s wrath is not a popular one. But whether it is popular or not, it is Biblical. For example, Romans, chapter 1, verse 18 says, “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness.” The Bible makes it very clear that as a perfectly holy God, God cannot allow godlessness and wickedness to go unpunished. Correct?
RD: Correct. We’re well aware at Anchored by Truth that the doctrine of hell and God’s wrath has come in for a lot of criticism in our day and age. But that doesn’t mean it’s not clearly taught by the Bible and we do people a disservice if we don’t pass along the warnings about hell that Jesus gave his listeners during his public ministry.
VK: Such as the warning Jesus gave in Matthew, chapter 25, verse 41 where Jesus warned His listeners about being kind to His followers. Jesus promised blessings to those who fed, clothed, or visited His people when they were in need. But Jesus also promised those who didn’t assist His followers in need that they would be separated from Him. Jesus said, “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.’” Note that Jesus said that the eternal fire had been prepared for the devil and his fallen angels. Hell was established for the devil and his demons but it’s also where unrighteous people will also end up.
RD: Sadly, yes. But let’s hasten to add that there is no need for anyone to go to hell. All anyone has to do is accept Jesus as their Savior or Advocate and they are eternally safe the instant they do so. And that is certainly one of the reasons Jesus talked more about hell than anyone else in the Bible. Jesus came to the earth to save people not to condemn them. Jesus made that very clear in his conversation with Nicodemus. In John 3:17 Jesus said, “For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.”
VK: And the disciples clearly understood this message because they continued to carry it after Jesus’ resurrection and return to heaven. In 2 Peter, chapter 3, verse 9, Peter wrote to his audience that “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.” Jesus’ earnest desire – in fact the desire of every true Christian - is to see everyone come to a saving knowledge of Christ.
RD: And there would be no need for us to talk about hell at all if everyone would turn to Christ for salvation. But, unfortunately, we know that they won’t. As such it’s incumbent on us to talk enough about hell so people have a very clear idea of the eternity that awaits the unsaved. Warning people about their fate for not turning to Jesus is, in fact, an essential part of testifying about the gospel. God has given His people very clear commands that when He, as God, commands us to bring His word to others we are to do so whether that word is a pleasing one or not. This is what God made clear to Ezekiel in chapter 33 of his book.
VK: You’re thinking of Ezekiel, chapter 33, verses 8 and 9 where God speaks to Ezekiel and says, “When I say to the wicked, ‘You wicked person, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak out to dissuade them from their ways, that wicked person will die for a their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. But if you do warn the wicked person to turn from their ways and they do not do so, they will die for their sin, though you yourself will be saved.”
RD: Yes. In that context God was doing more than commanding Ezekiel to warn people about physical death if they didn’t turn from their wickedness. Ezekiel was well aware that even the righteous will suffer physical death as long as we live in a fallen creation. God was telling Ezekiel to warn people about the eternal death that comes to wicked people who won’t turn from their wickedness even after being warned. Jesus made this same point in Matthew 25, verses 41 through 46 that we alluded to earlier and in Matthew chapter 5. Throughout His public ministry Jesus warned people that the price of a failure to repent and turn to Him was eternal damnation. Notice that in Matthew, 25:41 Jesus expressly refers to the fire being “eternal fire.”
VK: So, that raises the question as to whether Jesus was speaking literally when He referred to “eternal fire” or whether He was speaking figuratively.
RD: And that’s a very good question. Fire is certainly the most common motif that is used when hell is being described in the Bible. Jesus mentions “eternal fire” in Matthew 25:41 and in our opening verse from Matthew, chapter 13 Jesus talks about the wicked being cast into a “blazing furnace.”
VK: And of course in Revelation, chapter 21, verse 8 we see hell identified as a “lake of fire.” In the New International Version that verse says, “But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
RD: Yes. And there is the well-known story of the rich man and the beggar Lazarus Jesus told in Luke, chapter 16.
VK: In verses 23 and 24 of Luke 16 Jesus said that the rich man had been sent to Hades after he died. Then Jesus said, “In Hades, where [the rich man] was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’”
RD: Right. Those are just a sampling of the Biblical verses that associate hell with fire or extreme heat. But, in a puzzling fashion the Bible routinely also associates images of hell with darkness such as in Matthew 8:12 and Jude verses 6 and 7.
VK: Jude verses 6 and 7 say, “And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.” That’s the New International Version also.
RD: Right. So, you have these two different metaphors that are hard to reconcile. After all, fire produces light as well as heat. So, it would be hard to see if hell is a place of darkness. But the image of utter or “deep” darkness is also commonly associates with descriptions of hell.
VK: So, how do you reconcile those seemingly conflicting ideas? How can hell be a place where there is an eternal flame that burns continuously but also be a place of everlasting darkness?
RD: I think that there are several possibilities. First, all of these images of hell may be symbolical and not be literal in any sense. Now, if they are symbolical that should not provide any comfort to anyone. In Bible history we have always seen that the reality has been more profound that the symbol that pointed toward it. In the Old Testament lambs were used as the sacrificial animal for the Passover Celebration. As such they were a symbol of the coming Christ. But Christ didn’t sacrifice an animal to produce salvation for mankind. He sacrificed himself. And the atonement Christ produced was immeasurably better than that produced by the symbol. The symbol’s sacrifice was temporary. Christ’s sacrifice was permanent. The Biblical reality is far more real than the symbol.
VK: Well, given the images of hell that are presented in the Bible, that’s a terrifying thought?
RD: And it’s intended to be. So, one possibility is that we shouldn’t try to make literal sense out of the images of fire, furnaces, or darkness. But another possibility is that there is some degree of literal accuracy, although again the image will be less profound than the reality. For instance the Contemporary English Version of part of the verse you read from Jude says, “God chained [the fallen angels] with everlasting chains and is now keeping them in dark pits until the great day of judgment.” So, the Contemporary English Version doesn’t say the fallen angels are kept in “darkness” per se but in “dark pits.” Think about a really large BBQ pit. Well, within the pit there will be spots where there is bright light but there are also spots with quite a bit of darkness.
VK: And, of course, smoke is also a common element present even with fires and flames. So, the fact that hell is described as “fiery lake of burning sulfur” or “a blazing furnace” doesn’t have to conflict with the idea that it may also be a place where there is desperate darkness – certainly enough to cause weeping and gnashing of teeth.
RD: Yes. So, even if we attribute some degree of literal truth to these descriptions of hell we can easily see how they could all be true albeit they are emphasizing different attributes in different descriptions. And this points to another truth about hell which I think is also very disconcerting.
VK: Which is?
RD: Which is that just as in heaven there are varying degrees of reward, in hell there will be varying degrees of punishment.
VK: Ouch. What you’re saying is that those people who experience hell will not necessarily experience hell in the same ways. As with any destination, each person will experience that location differently. Sadly, the same thing will be true of hell. Various writers have tried to depict his concept in their own way. In his Inferno Dante depicted hell as nine concentric circles of torment located within the Earth. Each level had its own level of torment and people were assigned to their level based on the level of wickedness or depravity they had exhibited on earth.
RD: Yes. So, the fact that the Bible uses different metaphors, if that’s what they are, to describe different phenomena the people there will experience just emphasizes that God is a God of perfect justice and judgment. It can literally be said that everyone’s punishment in hell will be individually suited to what they did on the earth. So, considering all of the various scriptures that describe hell and judgment in the Bible we can frame a coherent understanding of the doctrine of hell including a reason it exists, God’s response, the reality of the risk, and the result for everyone who rejects Christ as their Savior.
VK: So, let’s start with the reason. What is the reason God created hell?
RD: We heard the reason in our opening scripture from Matthew 13. Jesus told His listeners that “The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Hell is the destination for anyone who persists in their evil, including, as Jesus told Nicodemus, the evil of rejecting God’s one and only son, Jesus.
VK: Jesus had also told another group of listeners that hell had originally been prepared for the devil and the fallen angels. But once Adam sinned hell also became the destination for men who rejected God’s offer of saving grace through Jesus. What you’re saying is that the reason hell exists is because God had to have a place to send anyone who rebelled against His authority and holiness.
RD: Exactly. The reason hell exists is because sin and rebellion against God exist. God’s response to the sin and rebellion had to be to contain it otherwise it would have free rein to pollute all of creation. Right now, sin had not been fully contained in our fallen creation but there will come a time when it is – in hell.
VK: So, that’s the reason and God’s response. What about the reality of the risk?
RD: Remember that Jesus is the Biblical figure who gives us more information about hell than any other. Jesus gave us that set of horrible images of blazing furnaces, fiery agony, utter darkness, and separation, to forcibly drive home the reality of the future of those who rebel against God and never repent. Notice, Jesus didn’t describe hell as a place where people were just removed from God’s presence to live an eternity in a sort of regretful contemplation of things they missed. No. Jesus, as well as the rest of the Bible, used the kind of language to invoke fear, horror, and terror. Jesus wanted people to be well aware of what awaited them if they rejected Him.
VK: And that’s why we do people a disservice if we try to tamper with the plain warning that Jesus was so careful to send. Jesus wanted everyone to know the stakes – the ultimate results - of their decisions. He described that result in as plain a fashion as possible including how the people would react once they realized their plight. It’s interesting that Jesus did not confine His warnings about hell to just the physical conditions in hell – whether those are literal or graphically metaphorical. Jesus also told us that the people in hell would lose any sense they were consigned to hell unjustifiably.
RD: Yes. The people in hell wail and gnash their teeth not just because of their physical misery but because they will then know, undeniably, that they are there because of their own choices. Romans 14:11 quotes Isaiah 45:23 where God says that “every knee shall bow and every tongue confess” that God is sovereign. On earth it’s possible for people to deceive themselves and suppress their awareness of God. But that possibility gets stripped away after death.
VK: So, what you’re saying is that people in hell are denied even the comfort of claiming that they were put their unfairly. Just as the rich man in Luke, chapter 16 told Abraham that he was in agony because of the fire and wanted some relief. But he didn’t claim it was a mistake that he was there. Right?
RD: Right. In fact the rich man acknowledged that his brothers would also wind up in hell if they didn’t change their behavior which is why he begged Abraham to send Lazarus to warn them. The rich man knew he was only receiving what he deserved and he apparently knew that his brothers deserved the same fate. This may be one of the saddest punctuation points in all of scripture. Scripture doesn’t say that the rich man was particularly evil but it does tell us that the rich man, despite being aware of the Old Testament, ignored its warnings. This is unbelievably sad. People who don’t accept Christ as their Savior know there is a God (Romans 1:18 – 20) but they suppress the knowledge.
VK: Well, when we did our “Truth in Genesis” series Dr. Jonathan Sarfati made the observation that diamonds are the hardest substance on earth next to the human heart. That’s so sad when you think about it.
RD: It is. So to summarize, the reason hell is exists is because of rebellion. God’s response to the rebellion was to create hell to house the rebellious angels. But when humans rebelled it became the ultimate destination for anyone who, as Jesus put it, prefers the darkness to the light. But Jesus graphically warned people of the reality of the risk they were taking through the horrific images He associated with hell. And Jesus noted that the final result of a continued rebellion against Him and His Father will be an eternity of misery. But the good news is that there is no need for anyone listening to this program to have any concerns about hell whatsoever. All anyone must do to avoid that terrible fate is acknowledge that they are a sinner and accept Christ as their Savior. Christ has already died for their sin and ours. All any of us must do is accept the work he has already performed on our behalf.
VK: Well, this sounds like a good time to go to God in prayer. Since all of us have sinned and fallen short of what God requires, let’s listen to a prayer of corporate confession of our sins. 1 John, chapter 1, verse 9 tells us that if we confess our sins He is faithful and just and will not only forgive us for our sins but also purify us from all unrighteousness. What a blessed assurance to know that God is not just a God of justice but also a God of mercy if we will only seek it.
---- PRAYER OF CORPORATE CONFESSION (MARCUS)
We hope you’ll be with us next time and we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the New International Version)
Matthew, chapter 13, verses 40 through 42, New International Version
Topical Bible: Hell (biblehub.com)
"The Eternity of Hell-Torments" (biblehub.com)
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By R.D.Fierro
5
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Episode 132 – But What About … Hell
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew, chapter 13, verses 40 through 42, New International Version
********
VK: Hello. I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. Today, we are coming to the final topic of our study series we’ve called “But what about” because a lot of time you hear questions like “but what about angels and demons” or “what about heaven and hell?” So far in our series we have discussed the angels, demons, the Angel of the Lord, and the Holy Spirit. Today, we’re going to begin our discussion of “but what about heaven and hell” with today’s show focusing on “but what about hell.” I’m in the studio today with RD Fierro, author and Founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, why did you pick these topics to feature on this “but what about series?” I suppose we could probably have picked any number of others because there are so many topics in the Bible that cause some level of confusion in the minds of many Christians. Why did we focus on the topics we did?
RD: Well, before we get started I want to say a word of greeting and thanks to all the Anchored by Truth listeners. Thank you for joining us here today. I think an astute listener …
VK: Which all of our listeners are!
RD: Agreed. We tend to focus on attributes of the Bible and Christian faith that often don’t get much coverage on some programs. We’re not criticizing – we fully understand there’s only so much any program can cover. But our focus is on helping people develop a strong intellectual framework for understanding the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God – and to do that means we have to talk about some subjects that are somewhat more esoteric – like why all arguments against the existence of God have logical failures or how real science demonstrates that the book of Genesis is literal history. At any rate, our listeners will have noted that all the subjects we have covered in this “but what about” series have to do with the supernatural dimensions of the Christian faith – or you might say the unseen realm.
VK: And the Bible is very clear that there is a very real but unseen realm. Colossians, chapter1, verse 16 says, “For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible …” The Christian faith is a faith that is anchored firmly in time and place but it also recognizes that the created order is not limited to the things that we can apprehend with our five senses.
RD: Right. And because the unseen realm is, well, unseen there is a lot of confusion and misinformation that circulates around it. That’s why we wanted to do this “but what about” series to focus attention on what the Bible says about many of the subjects that are normally part of the unseen realm – like angels – or heaven and hell. Today, we want to focus on the unpleasant topic first: hell.
VK: And I’m sure most of the listeners know that hell is the final destination for those who have rejected Christ as their Savior. The New Geneva Study Bible put it this way in one of their study notes: “The New Testament views hell as the final abode of those condemned to eternal punishment at the Last Judgment.” Why do you think it says the New Testament in that comment and not “the Bible?”
RD: Probably because the doctrine of hell is far more fully developed in the New Testament than it was in the old. It’s not that a place of condemnation for the unfaithful was unknown during Old Testament times. It certainly was. For instance, Job 24:19 says “As drought and heat consume the melting snow, so Sheol steals those who have sinned.”
VK: “Sheol” is one of three words that is commonly translated as hell in the Bible. The others are “gehenna” and “hades.” Sheol is from ancient Hebrew. The others are from Greek.
RD: Yes. So, the concept of an eternal division between the righteous and unrighteous was definitely present in the Old Testament but most of details we have about hell come from the New Testament. And surprisingly enough the Biblical figure who talked the most about hell was Jesus – and it’s from Jesus we get the clearest idea of the horror of hell.
VK: Like the images we get from our opening scripture where Jesus likens hell to a blazing furnace where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Weeping and gnashing of teeth are both expressions of sincere sorrow and regret. And since this quote is from Jesus Himself we know that it is accurate. In a way it’s not surprising that we learn the most about hell from Jesus because Jesus is the One who can save us from hell – so he knows what he is saving us from. It has been said that “God saves us from himself by himself for himself.”
RD: Right. And that leads us to one of the first concepts that we want to ensure that people understand. It is sometimes said that hell is the absence of God whereas heaven is where we will be in the presence of God. But strictly speaking this is not true. It is true that we will be eternally in God’s presence in heaven but in heaven we will be in the presence of God’s goodness, his beneficence. The people and demons who will be in hell will be in the presence of God’s wrath rather than His goodness.
VK: Now in our day and age the concept of God’s wrath is not a popular one. But whether it is popular or not, it is Biblical. For example, Romans, chapter 1, verse 18 says, “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness.” The Bible makes it very clear that as a perfectly holy God, God cannot allow godlessness and wickedness to go unpunished. Correct?
RD: Correct. We’re well aware at Anchored by Truth that the doctrine of hell and God’s wrath has come in for a lot of criticism in our day and age. But that doesn’t mean it’s not clearly taught by the Bible and we do people a disservice if we don’t pass along the warnings about hell that Jesus gave his listeners during his public ministry.
VK: Such as the warning Jesus gave in Matthew, chapter 25, verse 41 where Jesus warned His listeners about being kind to His followers. Jesus promised blessings to those who fed, clothed, or visited His people when they were in need. But Jesus also promised those who didn’t assist His followers in need that they would be separated from Him. Jesus said, “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.’” Note that Jesus said that the eternal fire had been prepared for the devil and his fallen angels. Hell was established for the devil and his demons but it’s also where unrighteous people will also end up.
RD: Sadly, yes. But let’s hasten to add that there is no need for anyone to go to hell. All anyone has to do is accept Jesus as their Savior or Advocate and they are eternally safe the instant they do so. And that is certainly one of the reasons Jesus talked more about hell than anyone else in the Bible. Jesus came to the earth to save people not to condemn them. Jesus made that very clear in his conversation with Nicodemus. In John 3:17 Jesus said, “For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.”
VK: And the disciples clearly understood this message because they continued to carry it after Jesus’ resurrection and return to heaven. In 2 Peter, chapter 3, verse 9, Peter wrote to his audience that “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.” Jesus’ earnest desire – in fact the desire of every true Christian - is to see everyone come to a saving knowledge of Christ.
RD: And there would be no need for us to talk about hell at all if everyone would turn to Christ for salvation. But, unfortunately, we know that they won’t. As such it’s incumbent on us to talk enough about hell so people have a very clear idea of the eternity that awaits the unsaved. Warning people about their fate for not turning to Jesus is, in fact, an essential part of testifying about the gospel. God has given His people very clear commands that when He, as God, commands us to bring His word to others we are to do so whether that word is a pleasing one or not. This is what God made clear to Ezekiel in chapter 33 of his book.
VK: You’re thinking of Ezekiel, chapter 33, verses 8 and 9 where God speaks to Ezekiel and says, “When I say to the wicked, ‘You wicked person, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak out to dissuade them from their ways, that wicked person will die for a their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. But if you do warn the wicked person to turn from their ways and they do not do so, they will die for their sin, though you yourself will be saved.”
RD: Yes. In that context God was doing more than commanding Ezekiel to warn people about physical death if they didn’t turn from their wickedness. Ezekiel was well aware that even the righteous will suffer physical death as long as we live in a fallen creation. God was telling Ezekiel to warn people about the eternal death that comes to wicked people who won’t turn from their wickedness even after being warned. Jesus made this same point in Matthew 25, verses 41 through 46 that we alluded to earlier and in Matthew chapter 5. Throughout His public ministry Jesus warned people that the price of a failure to repent and turn to Him was eternal damnation. Notice that in Matthew, 25:41 Jesus expressly refers to the fire being “eternal fire.”
VK: So, that raises the question as to whether Jesus was speaking literally when He referred to “eternal fire” or whether He was speaking figuratively.
RD: And that’s a very good question. Fire is certainly the most common motif that is used when hell is being described in the Bible. Jesus mentions “eternal fire” in Matthew 25:41 and in our opening verse from Matthew, chapter 13 Jesus talks about the wicked being cast into a “blazing furnace.”
VK: And of course in Revelation, chapter 21, verse 8 we see hell identified as a “lake of fire.” In the New International Version that verse says, “But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
RD: Yes. And there is the well-known story of the rich man and the beggar Lazarus Jesus told in Luke, chapter 16.
VK: In verses 23 and 24 of Luke 16 Jesus said that the rich man had been sent to Hades after he died. Then Jesus said, “In Hades, where [the rich man] was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’”
RD: Right. Those are just a sampling of the Biblical verses that associate hell with fire or extreme heat. But, in a puzzling fashion the Bible routinely also associates images of hell with darkness such as in Matthew 8:12 and Jude verses 6 and 7.
VK: Jude verses 6 and 7 say, “And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.” That’s the New International Version also.
RD: Right. So, you have these two different metaphors that are hard to reconcile. After all, fire produces light as well as heat. So, it would be hard to see if hell is a place of darkness. But the image of utter or “deep” darkness is also commonly associates with descriptions of hell.
VK: So, how do you reconcile those seemingly conflicting ideas? How can hell be a place where there is an eternal flame that burns continuously but also be a place of everlasting darkness?
RD: I think that there are several possibilities. First, all of these images of hell may be symbolical and not be literal in any sense. Now, if they are symbolical that should not provide any comfort to anyone. In Bible history we have always seen that the reality has been more profound that the symbol that pointed toward it. In the Old Testament lambs were used as the sacrificial animal for the Passover Celebration. As such they were a symbol of the coming Christ. But Christ didn’t sacrifice an animal to produce salvation for mankind. He sacrificed himself. And the atonement Christ produced was immeasurably better than that produced by the symbol. The symbol’s sacrifice was temporary. Christ’s sacrifice was permanent. The Biblical reality is far more real than the symbol.
VK: Well, given the images of hell that are presented in the Bible, that’s a terrifying thought?
RD: And it’s intended to be. So, one possibility is that we shouldn’t try to make literal sense out of the images of fire, furnaces, or darkness. But another possibility is that there is some degree of literal accuracy, although again the image will be less profound than the reality. For instance the Contemporary English Version of part of the verse you read from Jude says, “God chained [the fallen angels] with everlasting chains and is now keeping them in dark pits until the great day of judgment.” So, the Contemporary English Version doesn’t say the fallen angels are kept in “darkness” per se but in “dark pits.” Think about a really large BBQ pit. Well, within the pit there will be spots where there is bright light but there are also spots with quite a bit of darkness.
VK: And, of course, smoke is also a common element present even with fires and flames. So, the fact that hell is described as “fiery lake of burning sulfur” or “a blazing furnace” doesn’t have to conflict with the idea that it may also be a place where there is desperate darkness – certainly enough to cause weeping and gnashing of teeth.
RD: Yes. So, even if we attribute some degree of literal truth to these descriptions of hell we can easily see how they could all be true albeit they are emphasizing different attributes in different descriptions. And this points to another truth about hell which I think is also very disconcerting.
VK: Which is?
RD: Which is that just as in heaven there are varying degrees of reward, in hell there will be varying degrees of punishment.
VK: Ouch. What you’re saying is that those people who experience hell will not necessarily experience hell in the same ways. As with any destination, each person will experience that location differently. Sadly, the same thing will be true of hell. Various writers have tried to depict his concept in their own way. In his Inferno Dante depicted hell as nine concentric circles of torment located within the Earth. Each level had its own level of torment and people were assigned to their level based on the level of wickedness or depravity they had exhibited on earth.
RD: Yes. So, the fact that the Bible uses different metaphors, if that’s what they are, to describe different phenomena the people there will experience just emphasizes that God is a God of perfect justice and judgment. It can literally be said that everyone’s punishment in hell will be individually suited to what they did on the earth. So, considering all of the various scriptures that describe hell and judgment in the Bible we can frame a coherent understanding of the doctrine of hell including a reason it exists, God’s response, the reality of the risk, and the result for everyone who rejects Christ as their Savior.
VK: So, let’s start with the reason. What is the reason God created hell?
RD: We heard the reason in our opening scripture from Matthew 13. Jesus told His listeners that “The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Hell is the destination for anyone who persists in their evil, including, as Jesus told Nicodemus, the evil of rejecting God’s one and only son, Jesus.
VK: Jesus had also told another group of listeners that hell had originally been prepared for the devil and the fallen angels. But once Adam sinned hell also became the destination for men who rejected God’s offer of saving grace through Jesus. What you’re saying is that the reason hell exists is because God had to have a place to send anyone who rebelled against His authority and holiness.
RD: Exactly. The reason hell exists is because sin and rebellion against God exist. God’s response to the sin and rebellion had to be to contain it otherwise it would have free rein to pollute all of creation. Right now, sin had not been fully contained in our fallen creation but there will come a time when it is – in hell.
VK: So, that’s the reason and God’s response. What about the reality of the risk?
RD: Remember that Jesus is the Biblical figure who gives us more information about hell than any other. Jesus gave us that set of horrible images of blazing furnaces, fiery agony, utter darkness, and separation, to forcibly drive home the reality of the future of those who rebel against God and never repent. Notice, Jesus didn’t describe hell as a place where people were just removed from God’s presence to live an eternity in a sort of regretful contemplation of things they missed. No. Jesus, as well as the rest of the Bible, used the kind of language to invoke fear, horror, and terror. Jesus wanted people to be well aware of what awaited them if they rejected Him.
VK: And that’s why we do people a disservice if we try to tamper with the plain warning that Jesus was so careful to send. Jesus wanted everyone to know the stakes – the ultimate results - of their decisions. He described that result in as plain a fashion as possible including how the people would react once they realized their plight. It’s interesting that Jesus did not confine His warnings about hell to just the physical conditions in hell – whether those are literal or graphically metaphorical. Jesus also told us that the people in hell would lose any sense they were consigned to hell unjustifiably.
RD: Yes. The people in hell wail and gnash their teeth not just because of their physical misery but because they will then know, undeniably, that they are there because of their own choices. Romans 14:11 quotes Isaiah 45:23 where God says that “every knee shall bow and every tongue confess” that God is sovereign. On earth it’s possible for people to deceive themselves and suppress their awareness of God. But that possibility gets stripped away after death.
VK: So, what you’re saying is that people in hell are denied even the comfort of claiming that they were put their unfairly. Just as the rich man in Luke, chapter 16 told Abraham that he was in agony because of the fire and wanted some relief. But he didn’t claim it was a mistake that he was there. Right?
RD: Right. In fact the rich man acknowledged that his brothers would also wind up in hell if they didn’t change their behavior which is why he begged Abraham to send Lazarus to warn them. The rich man knew he was only receiving what he deserved and he apparently knew that his brothers deserved the same fate. This may be one of the saddest punctuation points in all of scripture. Scripture doesn’t say that the rich man was particularly evil but it does tell us that the rich man, despite being aware of the Old Testament, ignored its warnings. This is unbelievably sad. People who don’t accept Christ as their Savior know there is a God (Romans 1:18 – 20) but they suppress the knowledge.
VK: Well, when we did our “Truth in Genesis” series Dr. Jonathan Sarfati made the observation that diamonds are the hardest substance on earth next to the human heart. That’s so sad when you think about it.
RD: It is. So to summarize, the reason hell is exists is because of rebellion. God’s response to the rebellion was to create hell to house the rebellious angels. But when humans rebelled it became the ultimate destination for anyone who, as Jesus put it, prefers the darkness to the light. But Jesus graphically warned people of the reality of the risk they were taking through the horrific images He associated with hell. And Jesus noted that the final result of a continued rebellion against Him and His Father will be an eternity of misery. But the good news is that there is no need for anyone listening to this program to have any concerns about hell whatsoever. All anyone must do to avoid that terrible fate is acknowledge that they are a sinner and accept Christ as their Savior. Christ has already died for their sin and ours. All any of us must do is accept the work he has already performed on our behalf.
VK: Well, this sounds like a good time to go to God in prayer. Since all of us have sinned and fallen short of what God requires, let’s listen to a prayer of corporate confession of our sins. 1 John, chapter 1, verse 9 tells us that if we confess our sins He is faithful and just and will not only forgive us for our sins but also purify us from all unrighteousness. What a blessed assurance to know that God is not just a God of justice but also a God of mercy if we will only seek it.
---- PRAYER OF CORPORATE CONFESSION (MARCUS)
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(Bible Quote from the New International Version)
Matthew, chapter 13, verses 40 through 42, New International Version
Topical Bible: Hell (biblehub.com)
"The Eternity of Hell-Torments" (biblehub.com)