Cardinal Müller (Gerhard Ludwig Müller) is a renowned theologian and former Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Known for his clear defense of Catholic teaching, he continues to guide the faithful with his deep theological insight and firm stand for truth and tradition.

Raymond Arroyo is an award-winning journalist and bestselling author, best known as the lead anchor of EWTN’s The World Over Live. His work combines faith, storytelling, and sharp insight into the life of the Church and its leaders.

This interview with Cardinal Gerhard Müller was conducted by Raymond Arroyo and can be watched in full on YouTube at this link.

The discussion was centered on the return of the Traditional Latin Mass at St. Peter’s Basilica, the tensions between tradition and modernity, and the current direction of the Church under Pope Leo XIV.

Raymond Arroyo:
The Traditional Latin Mass returned to St. Peter’s Basilica last weekend, despite an ongoing assault against the Traditional Latin Mass here in the US. What will become of Catholic tradition in the Church, and what of the so-called Synodality that we see continuing to spread throughout the globe?

Joining me now with insights here in Washington is theologian and former head of the Vatican’s doctrinal office, Cardinal Gerhard Müller.

Thank you so much for joining us again. Last time I saw you was in Rome, so I’m glad we’re a little more relaxed. Now, Your Eminence, I want to begin with your thoughts on this Traditional Latin Mass celebrated on October 25th.

Cardinal Raymond Burke was given permission to celebrate in the Basilica. Here’s my question — is this a symbol of a thawing relationship between the Church and the Traditional Latin Mass? Could this be a turn back to what Pope Benedict XVI envisioned?

Cardinal Müller:
The form of the Holy Mass (Ordo Missae) is a matter of discipline, not doctrine. All rites share the same substance — the representation of the Cross, the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and His resurrection.

In the Catholic Church, we have different rites and stages of evolution. St. Augustine celebrated with a slightly different liturgy, but it was still valid. Therefore, we need more tolerance and openness.

Our new pope can distinguish between doctrinal necessity and disciplinary variety. Absolute unity in discipline is not required, but unity in faith is essential. We must avoid relativism in doctrine and absolutism in discipline. It should be the other way around.

Raymond Arroyo:
The discipline here seems to run counter to what the Second Vatican Council envisioned regarding the liturgy. Pope Benedict said both forms — old and new — are one Roman Rite, allowing them to coexist. Why do we now see an aggressive crackdown, especially in the US?

Cardinal Müller:
Pope Benedict was a great theologian. He didn’t need ideologues to instrumentalize the liturgy for politics. The liturgy, in any form, is adoration of God and a means of salvation and grace.

Some use the liturgy to demonstrate power — that’s a wrong approach. The bishop and the pope must act as good shepherds, not as authoritarian rulers. This authoritarianism is not Catholic.

Raymond Arroyo:
Do you see what’s happening as cruel to the faithful?

Cardinal Müller:
Yes. Some bishops say that if people don’t accept the new form, they should stay home or go to the Lefebvrists. That is not a Catholic understanding. We must speak with the faithful in a cordial dialogue because the issue here is not doctrinal.

In doctrine — Jesus as true God and true Man — there can be no compromise.

Raymond Arroyo:
On Sunday, Pope Leo celebrated a Mass for the Jubilee of Synodal Teams. He called for unity amid tensions between tradition and novelty. Does tradition lead to harmful polarizations?

Cardinal Müller:
The real ideology dividing the Church is progressivism — compromising doctrine and morality. Tradition does not split the Church; it anchors her.

Tradition, Scripture, and the Magisterium are the three pillars of Catholic hermeneutics. The content of Tradition is the revealed doctrine of the apostles, affirming that Jesus is the Son of God. We need Apostolic Tradition as a living testimony.

Raymond Arroyo:
How did we reach a point where apostolic traditions are forgotten, and the only “dogma” seems to be that the Old Mass must not be celebrated?

Cardinal Müller:
The Second Vatican Council never condemned the old liturgy. It simply sought deeper participation of the faithful. The same Mass remains, only with renewed emphasis on understanding.

Raymond Arroyo:
You’ll be celebrating the Traditional Latin Mass in Philadelphia. Why do some in Rome see antagonism between the old and new forms?

Cardinal Müller:
They confuse unity of doctrine with uniformity of discipline. The actions against the Old Mass lack theological depth. Pope Benedict offered the best solution. Faith and reason must go together — decisions cannot be made by authority alone, without explanation.

Raymond Arroyo:
Pope Leo said Mass in Latin is fine if it’s the new rite. Cardinal Cupich called the Traditional Latin Mass a “spectacle.” Your thoughts?

Cardinal Müller:
It’s absurd to say the saints and popes of old were interested in a spectacle. That claim would fail any theological examination.

The Vatican II Fathers never said the old form was wrong. They only wanted to make it easier for the people to understand. The rite remains the same Latin rite.

Raymond Arroyo:
So, what’s the harm in allowing both forms?

Cardinal Müller:
There’s no harm. Those who love the older form should also be open to the newer. Pope Benedict’s approach remains the best — unity without unnecessary struggle.

We should fight heresy, not those who prefer a different liturgical expression.

Raymond Arroyo:
Reports said bishops found the old Mass thriving, yet the Vatican presented the opposite. Do you believe that?

Cardinal Müller:
No. I saw no polarization. The crackdown is more about authority than pastoral care. The pope should not override bishops in local matters. The Church is not a military organization.

Raymond Arroyo:
Recently, Pope Leo lit a “candle of peace” alongside leaders of other religions, ending with We Are the World. What’s your view on this form of interreligious dialogue?

Cardinal Müller:
Dialogue can exist for peace and cooperation, but not as a shared religion. There is no “world religion.” The Catholic faith is founded on the revealed truth of Jesus Christ.

We must avoid the impression that all religions are equal. There is only one Word of God — Jesus Christ — and the pope represents Him as Vicar of Christ.

Raymond Arroyo:
The pope said the Church “respects the truth in your religions.” How should that be understood?

Cardinal Müller:
There can be reflections of truth in philosophy, as Justin Martyr noted. But truth is not quantitative. The fullness of truth is in Jesus Christ alone.

Early Church Fathers never equated pagan religion with truth. Only philosophy, as a fragment of reason (logos), reflects truth in part.

Raymond Arroyo:
In Italy’s Synodal assembly, the text approved the “pastoral accompaniment” of homosexual and transgender persons. Your reaction?

Cardinal Müller:
Such assemblies are not representative of the Church. The proposal for women’s ordination contradicts dogma. Only men can receive Holy Orders.

Promoting “recognition” of homosexual or transgender unions contradicts revelation itself. This is not the Holy Spirit at work, but the spirit of ideology.

Raymond Arroyo:
The Vatican Library reportedly granted a prayer space to Muslim visitors. What are your thoughts?

Cardinal Müller:
This is theological relativism. The Vatican belongs to the Catholic Church; official prayers should be Catholic. This decision wasn’t deeply reflected upon. It’s a self-relativization of faith.

If unreciprocated, it sends the wrong message — one of surrender, not dialogue.

Raymond Arroyo:
How do you think Muslims perceive this gesture?

Cardinal Müller:
They will see it as a sign of superiority, a symbolic foothold inside the Church.

Raymond Arroyo:
We’ll leave it there. Your Eminence, always wonderful to see you.

Cardinal Müller:
Thank you very much.

The post Cardinal Müller, Doctrine Expert, Boldly Speaks on the TLM first appeared on EPISTLES.