I am so thrilled to welcome Catherine Liu back on the podcast.  As many of you know, Catherine is a professor of Film and Media Studies at the University of California, Irvine.  She is also the author of "Virtue Hoarders: The Case Against the Professional Managerial Class" and actually and amateur zoologist.  It is that last topic we cover again as Catherine has come prepared with some very exciting observations about non human Earthlings.  This is a little snippet of our conversation. To hear the entire episode, please subscribe at https://www.patreon.com/claywoman