For this episode  of Extension Out Loud I’m joined by three guests who are active in a new program focusing on mental health on the farm.

Farmers faces several complicating factors that create mental health stressors – long work hours, volatile commodity prices and lack of access to mental health resources being serval of these factors. New statistics from the CDC reveal a startling truth about agricultural work, with suicide rates for farmers and other agricultural workers at 36 per 100,000, making agricultural work one of the highest ranked occupations at risk.

My guests - Nicole Tommell , an agricultural business specialist with Cornell Cooperative Extension, Kendra Janssen of Farmnet, and Becky Wiseman a clinical social worker and consultant for Farmnet explain the roots of this crisis and  the new Farmer First Aid program and its train the trainer model.

Before we jump in, a quick note on the contents of this episode. Throughout our conversation we discuss depression and suicide. Listener discretion is advised.

Links

New York FarmNet

CCE Central New York Dairy, Livestock and Field Crops web site.

Episode Transcript

PAUL TREADWELL: Welcome to Extension Out Loud, a podcast from Cornell Cooperative Extension. I am Paul Treadwell. And for this episode, I'm joined by three guests who are active in a new program focusing on mental health on the farm. Farmers face several complicating factors that create mental health stressors, long work hours, volatile commodity prices, and lack of access to mental health resources being several of these factors.

New statistics from the CDC reveal a startling truth about agricultural work, with suicide rates for farmers and other agricultural workers at 36 per 100,000, making agricultural work one of the highest ranked occupations at risk. My guests, Nicole Tommell, an agricultural business specialist with Cornell Cooperative Extension, Kendra Janssen of FarmNet, and Becky Wiseman, a clinical social worker and consultant for Farm Net, explain the roots of this crisis, and the new Farmer First Aid program, and it's train the trainer model.

Before we jump in, a quick note on the contents of this episode. Throughout our conversation, we discussed depression and suicide. Listener discretion is advised.

NICOLE TOMMELL: Hi, everyone. My name is Nicole Tommell. I am the Central New York dairy, livestock, and field crops team farm business management specialist. I'm also the team lead. And we cover eight counties, from Madison County to Saratoga County.

PAUL TREADWELL: Thank you Nicole. And Kendra?

KENDRA JANSSEN: Yeah. I'm Kendra Janssen with FarmNet. So I'm the office administrator here. So we are offering these mental health first aid courses for free to New York State agricultural communities. And I help organize all this, and pilot them, and get these trainers out there and ready to instruct.

PAUL TREADWELL: Hey, Kendra. Just for my benefit, can you tell me a little bit about FarmNet?

KENDRA JANSSEN: FarmNet is a unique program. We offer free financial and family consulting to New York State's agricultural producers. So if you're a farmer in New York State, we offer financial business analysis. We help with business transfers, succession planning. And then we also help with the stress management side of things and family side of things, communicating.

So it's a unique program, as in there's two consultants that go out to the farms and to clients. And they help together. So it's not just a financial consultant going out alone, but rather it's a financial, and a family consultant, and a social worker going out and addressing the issues that the farmers are dealing with.

PAUL TREADWELL: Thank you. And Becky?

BECKY WISEMAN: Yes. I'm Becky Wiseman. And I have been working with FarmNet for now five years. I am an clinical social worker. I am the family side of the team that goes out.

PAUL TREADWELL: We're here to talk about, this is a new program that's starting to be deployed. So who wants to introduce the program to us and tell us a little bit about what it's supposed to do?

KENDRA JANSSEN: FarmNet received a grant from USDA NIFA. And it's the National Institute of Food and Agriculture. And with this grant, we were able to have several folks throughout New York State that have an agricultural background become instructors in mental health first aid.

So Becky, one of our FarmNet consultants, and Nicole, with Cornell Cooperative Extension, both became certified instructors in mental health first aid. Along with them, there is a cohort of others that became instructors from Farm Bureau to other FarmNet consultants.

PAUL TREADWELL: So what does it mean to be an instructor? What does that role do?

KENDRA JANSSEN: As an instructor, Becky and Nicole, how about you guys?

NICOLE TOMMELL: So an instructor, we actually went through a very intensive training program, which is a three-day program, 24 hours, which basically covered the gamut of how to deliver very sensitive content to people. So we can go in and teach people how to deliver the content and understand mental health first aid in their communities so that they can identify problems at the ground level. So to get people help more rapidly than their traditional doctors or first responders. So it's really just ground level type health that we are instructing people on how to identify.

BECKY WISEMAN: Which like when we have a physical problem that happens and we call the ambulance, the team that comes out are not the doctors. They're not the people who perform the surgeries. That's what we train.

We train people to be able to not diagnose the problem, but be able to know how to work with people who are in a mental health crisis. How to identify what's going on. How to listen effectively and attentively and be supportive and know some of the steps then that needs to be done to help that person get the kind of care that they need.

PAUL TREADWELL: What has brought us to this point where we're starting to train people to do this work?

BECKY WISEMAN: There's been increased stress and suicidal risks in agricultural workers. In fact, the CDC, in January 2022, the suicide rates for agricultural workers were 36 per 100,000. And I think what we're seeing more is this isn't something that's brand new. I believe that agriculture workers and farmers have been increasingly at risk for suicide for a number of years, one of the reasons why FarmNet was founded in 1987.

And I think that now there's been more emphasis on it because people across the spectrum of mental health issues are being more aware of problems. And I think it's losing some of its stigma that was once attached to it. And farmers have been very receptive of this program.

FarmNet gives people a chance to find out that they can talk about their crises, talk about what's going on in their lives. And we listen. And that's one of the things they taught us, right? And it was so difficult.

NICOLE TOMMELL: Yes. It was a lot of listening and understanding not just verbal cues, but body cues as it was very intensive training. But you are correct, Becky. And just kind of touching back. 1987, you look at what happened in the '80s with the farm crisis, and that really is why FarmNet came out of that. And we got lots of suicide and people hurting themselves.

In the '80s and with COVID, we saw people with the lockdowns have issues. We always look at pre-COVID, post-COVID time period. Even pre-COVID, even though we didn't see it, it was very prevalent because just the stress of the economics on the farm family really did take a toll.

And within this program, it's not even mental health that we're talking about. We also talk about addiction. Whether it's alcohol or opioid drug addiction, we do talk about that and the identifying factors of that. We see across the country the opioid addiction rates have gone up significantly.

BECKY WISEMAN: And it's a lot of stressors too because COVID added to falling commodity prices. And then you also have the labor shortages that farmers were dealing with and then the supply shortages, all those stressors add up. And then that increases the risk of suicide, depression, and substance use.

PAUL TREADWELL: So Nicole, I just want to ask. Do you see a difference between the size of the farm and the problem? Does that have bearing on it? Or is this pretty much universal across most farmers?

NICOLE TOMMELL: It's universal. I mean, mental health affects everyone in some way, shape, or form, maybe not somebody directly, but maybe indirectly. So I can't comment to whether it's predominantly small farm or large farm. I just think that it's just across the scale.

I look at it as we're creating awareness. And whether it may not be the farmer, but it may be the farmer spouse. It may be the farmer's children. It may be an aging parent. So it could be anything along that spectrum. When that person is tied to the farm, the farm finances, the production side of it, it kind of just all is wrapped into one, in my perspective.

BECKY WISEMAN: I agree with you.

KENDRA JANSSEN: It doesn't matter, small or large farms. We all have issues that we have to work through and deal with on top of just dealing with the farming and managing the farm. You still have to go home. And you still have to take care of whatever you're dealing with at home. No one is immune to it.

PAUL TREADWELL: There is stigma attached to discussing your mental health of other people. And Nicole, I think you indicated earlier there's been a slight shift-- or maybe it was Kendra-- there's been a slight shift in attitudes. Is that shift enough? How much further do we have to go to get this out into the open where it's an acceptable thing to talk about?

BECKY WISEMAN: The more the general public talks about mental health, the more it becomes OK. And I think it has become more available, just verbally, socially acceptable to talk about mental health issues. That will help reduce the stigma. I think it's just really positive that USDA has provided this kind of funding for programs such as ours to be able to address mental health issues.

PAUL TREADWELL: If you identify a farmer who is at risk, many rural communities are under-resourced, there may not be facilities or professional help nearby, what are the next steps? How do you get them to appropriate help?

NICOLE TOMMELL: So that's where FarmNet comes in because we have a 1-800 free hotline. We as folks out in the community can't call for them, but we can encourage the farm to call on behalf of themselves. There are also people that will sit there with a phone, so just for moral support.

I would dial the phone, call in to FarmNet. They always answer. There's never a recording, which people really do appreciate. So the worst thing to do is if you're having a crisis and you call somebody, and it's press 5 for help. Or dial 911 if you feel as though you're in a terrible emergency.

FarmNet will answer the phone. There's always a live person on the other end. And then they can go through the steps to help that person and get an in-person meeting or whatever they feel the next step is.

PAUL TREADWELL: Kendra, FarmNet, is a national program? Is it just in New York State?

KENDRA JANSSEN: It's just in New York State as of right now. So our funding is only statewide. So that's why we are pretty unique as in New York State. And there's not that many. I would only say maybe one or two throughout the United States that have a similar program.

And as Nicole was mentioning, as people call in, they talk to a live person. And I've answered that phone at midnight or 2:00 AM and dealt with emergency calls. Also, we have an answering service, which is another human being too that will push it through.

If I'm on the phone at the time that someone calls in, then we also have an auxiliary service to answer. And we pilot and assign consultants. Within 24 hours, that caller will get help. They will receive a call from a consultant. Where if someone's contemplating suicide, that is escalated. That's immediate help. There's number 24-hour wait.

PAUL TREADWELL: During COVID, we came to rely on technology as a way to establish some continuing or ongoing connection with people we used to see face-to-face. Can you talk a little bit about the impact of that as technology found new utility, I guess, in delivering aid that otherwise would be out of reach?

BECKY WISEMAN: And we see that with COVID too. During COVID, we used Zoom a lot. We used phones, and FaceTime, and any sort of avenue electronically that was available. If we could not have our feet at the farm and be on site, we were virtually on site.

NICOLE TOMMELL: And now, also say, Paul, just one extra step to that or a one-off would be the social media presence of the impact of mental health and how people are coming out and speaking about suicide awareness, substance abuse awareness, their own personal journeys in mental health. You see that on TikTok, or Facebook, or Instagram. It's ever present out there.

And I think that social media has really driven positive results of getting the word out there about destigmatizing mental health. Really quick, as we were talking, I was thinking about I saw a TikTok just the other day. It was a spoof on two nurses in a rural hospital.

And they said, there's a farmer in here. And they were like, oh, my gosh. There's a farmer here. Let's go take care of him right now. What's his problem because he never comes to the emergency room? So we know that that's how farmers are. And people in the agricultural industry, it's like, oh, we'll do it tomorrow. But social media has really ramped up people recognizing, seeing the need, and I think really pushing that to the front of the page.

PAUL TREADWELL: That's fascinating that you say that because we so often hear about the negative impacts of social media. So it's kind of comforting to hear the fact that there is a utility to social media that has a positive benefit. I want to just flip back to this farmers don't go to the doctor. Is some of that a natural reticence, but is some of that economic?

NICOLE TOMMELL: I think it's both. But some it too is they just don't want to take the time. I mean, I have farmers that don't want to have rotator cuff surgeries done because they know they'll be laid up for so many months. Or they need hip or knee replacements. And they just don't want to deal with that.

So they would rather go through the pain than go and go to the doctors and know that they're going to be out of commission for six weeks or three months. That spurs the substance abuse potential issues, kicking that can down the road. I hate using that. It's really what happens. It's kind of a big snowball effect.

PAUL TREADWELL: Let's talk about a number of farmers that have been interacted with, the number of farmers that up to this point have received some sort of care that they would not have otherwise received. Can you talk about that a bit?

NICOLE TOMMELL: Yeah, or even like some of the agricultural community that has taken the mental health first aid courses. So we offered over 10 of them throughout 2022. And we've had over 200 folks in the agricultural community attend these. That was a really good turnout. And it's educating the agricultural community on how to better identify and help folks that are dealing with mental health crises.

PAUL TREADWELL: When you talk about the agriculture community, are you talking about folks like Nicole? Or are you talking about actual farmers themselves? Or is it a mix?

KENDRA JANSSEN: It's a mix. It can be Cornell Extension folks. It can be nurses. It can be people in the hospital that work with farmers that come in or teachers that work with students that are farming. It's across the board.

Basically, everyone in the community is impacted by a farmer one way or another. And we're just trying to educate the communities throughout New York State on listening. Have listening skills. Do you see something or see someone acting off, a little different?

Maybe they're quiet. They're just mad. Be there for them and try to figure out what's going on. And we also are offering Safe Talk and Talk Saves Lives, which it's a suicide prevention course as well, just basically listen. Acknowledge what's going around and in your surroundings.

BECKY WISEMAN: And not be afraid. I think it breaks down some of our stigmas or what we should say or what we shouldn't say. We can't be afraid to ask somebody.

NICOLE TOMMELL: And that's sometimes one of the first questions. When I get a caller to the 800 line, to FarmNet, and they seem-- they're sad. They're depressed, stressed. It's a tough question, but that's the first question. Are you contemplating suicide? Are you safe?

These are questions that need to be asked right in the beginning because we care. We want to help. And we want to assess the situation so that we can provide the help that's needed.

PAUL TREADWELL: You're listening to Extension Out Loud and our conversation about the new Farmer First Aid program. There are a couple of things that come to mind. But one is, this is shifting some of the work of extension workers and some of the work of FarmNet. And it's really opening up this mode of caring that may have been somewhat de-emphasized in the past.

Nicole, I want to ask you specifically. When you open yourself up to caring, you open yourself up to a lot of risk. You're taking on some of the emotional burden that is brought out there. So how do you as an extension professional cope with that? Do you have strategies and tools?

NICOLE TOMMELL: Paul, that is a great question because over the course of COVID, a lot of our farm business management specialists got really burned out. And a lot of our extension colleagues were burned out. So we put on a three series seminar with the help of New York FarmNet to help our colleagues get some tools in their toolbox.

Because that's what was happening, is we were going out to the farm. We are working. We're dealing with these folks and hearing their kitchen table talks, which they can be mentally exhausting. We were dealing with this and COVID. People were dumping milk. People were not getting paid for their product, whatever that may be.

They have children at home. They're stressed about their kid's school, their education. I mean, we heard it all. And it was burning us out. But I know that if I need help as an extension specialist, I can call FarmNet. And I know that I can call and get help that I need from my colleagues in mental health. And so doing that gives me a lot of relief.

But also just caring for myself and making sure that I take the time that I need to be able to process this stuff is really important. Burnout is real in this job, as we all know. We need to make sure that we are healthy for ourselves, healthy for our families, and then also healthy for the people that we are working with. We want to be our best self.

PAUL TREADWELL: Thank you. So Kendra, I want to flip the question over to you because Nicole just said she might contact FarmNet for help. So it sounds like you're at the bottom of the heap here, bearing the burden of multiple people asking for help. This is a very heavy thing. So what do you do to make it bearable?

KENDRA JANSSEN: Yeah. And just like Nicole said, it is, it's a lot. And I'm glad that Nicole and her colleagues use us as a resource too because that's what we're here for. And she's frontline. They're frontline with the farmers. So it's important to do self-care and for us to be there to help them so that they can provide that important work. And it's the same with our consultants.

So we have trainings throughout the year. I usually plan three to four trainings for our consultants. And they come on site. And it's like a retreat. So we have trainings on taking care of ourselves so that we can continually be refreshed, in a sense, so that we can provide the essential help to callers, and to clients, and farms that are calling in. Because it is, it's a draining work. And you can easily become overrun.

And most of our consultants, they are, I would say, retired. So our consultants work in general 20 hours a week. So we're not asking folks to work 40 to 80 hours. That's another thing that we keep in consideration is 20-hour weeks. That can feel like 40 or 60 hours when you're dealing with this kind of work. So it helps keep them refreshed and ready for their next client.

So we have consultants throughout New York State. And they each help each other. And I also know, I think, Becky is part of a cohort. We have several cohorts throughout New York State where the consultants meet with each other and just talk about cases, talk about how to handle maybe life situations. Becky can elaborate on that too.

BECKY WISEMAN: Yes. We have these small, we call them pods. And there are three other women in my pod. We meet once a month via Zoom. And talk about cases and support each other. But as far as technology also has played a big role in our consultants being closer to one another.

We have three meetings a month that we can attend. And we have 25, 30 people attend almost every time. And it's where we get support. We get to listen to each other. We get news updates.

PAUL TREADWELL: I'm just curious. Do you ever use Zoom to connect with called clients? Is that generally the way it's done? I assume, Becky, you're not going to drive to Saratoga County to talk to somebody.

BECKY WISEMAN: Sometimes, it depends. Zoom has been wonderful though. It's a great resource for us to use. I've used it with clients. And then if I see a real need, then I schedule a trip. Every form is a little different. So it's always great be able to see what's happening right on the farm.

KENDRA JANSSEN: You learn so much more from a person. And you see some of the body language or some of the things at the farm that you might not see on Zoom. And I've assigned consultants. They've driven up to three or four hours to some cases.

PAUL TREADWELL: If you could do any one thing to make the situation better, what would it be?

KENDRA JANSSEN: Listen and be there for people. That's the main thing. And a lot of times when I get a call, it's listening. It's hearing them out, hearing their story, and being that supportive person. Because they just might not have anyone in their corner. Sometimes that's all they need is your time, time to listen, time to support them.

BECKY WISEMAN: To just be there for them.

NICOLE TOMMELL: Yeah. And sometimes it's just not even us speaking. It's just sitting there. You could be in total silence and just let them talk when they feel comfortable, so just being able to be present. And we're thankful in extension that they allow us the time because we're not scheduled.

I know when I work with farmers, I block out two hours. But I may be there four. You never know. And just know that you can sit and listen. And then usually if you can sit in silence, people will start to slowly open.

PAUL TREADWELL: Thank you for listening to this episode. Extension Out Loud was produced and edited by Paul Treadwell. For more information about this episode, including show notes and the transcript, visit extensionoutloud.com And be sure to subscribe to Extension Out Loud on your favorite podcast directory.