In 2009 Rowan Hoban and Sarah Bird spotted a gap in the market for family-friendly festivals and decided to co-create the Just So Festival in their spare time. Just under a decade later, Just So has gone on to win multiple awards and Rowan and Sarah, through the arts organisation they created alongside it, Wild Rumpus, organise events all around the world from their horsebox office in the Whirligig Woods on the festival site at Rode Hall in Cheshire. In this episode, which was recorded in the woods in one of their caravans, Rowan and Sarah explain how a chance meeting led to them starting their business, what makes their partnership work, and why being outdoors fuels their creativity.