We talk a lot about fixing cities—but less about why we’ve let them decline in the first place. This conversation with civic pride expert Jeff Siegler is a deep, uncomfortable, and often inspiring look at how we got here and what it takes to turn it around.

Jeff doesn’t believe in sugar-coating. He’s spent his life fighting against civic apathy and calling out the ways we’ve outsourced care, maintenance, and even meaning in our places. We talked about what happens when people stop seeing their city as theirs, why shame and pride are two sides of the same coin, and how to rebuild not just infrastructure, but belief.

This episode is full of insights on:

• Why placelessness is a symptom of deeper dysfunction
• The dangers of design without stewardship
• The real cost of our maintenance gap
• How cities can rekindle civic love—not through slogans, but through action

As Jeff says: “The opposite of love isn’t hate. It’s indifference. And that’s what’s killing our cities.”