In this episode of Terms of Service, host Mary Camacho speaks with Dr. Sarah Stein Lubrano—author of Don’t Talk About Politics: How to Change 21st Century Minds—about what it takes to think, connect, and persuade in a time of rapid technological and cultural disruption. Drawing from her background in philosophy, psychology, and political theory, Sarah explores how emotions shape our cognition, why curiosity is a democratic virtue, and how design and technology can either open or close off possibilities for shared understanding.

Together, they examine how modern systems—from social media to AI agents—can reduce nuance, flatten emotional range, and reward performance over reflection. This conversation invites us to think more deeply about how we encounter difference—and what it takes to stay open when the world feels overwhelming.

• Changing minds isn’t about winning arguments. It starts with curiosity, emotional intelligence, and building the cognitive space for reflection.
• Democracy requires mental infrastructure. That means not just freedom of speech, but the psychological and social capacity to listen, consider, and evolve.
• AI and social platforms risk “flattening” cognition. Speed and frictionless interaction can reduce the emotional and epistemic range of public discourse.
• Design can support or inhibit dignity. How we architect systems of learning, debate, or health shapes what kinds of people and conversations they enable.
• We don’t need agreement to coexist. But we do need structures that protect space for difference—both in ideas and identities.

• 02:10 – Sarah’s intellectual path: from Oxford and Harvard to emotional epistemology and political learning
• 04:24 – Why she wrote Don’t Talk About Politics and what “changing minds” really involves.
• 13:30 – How certain academic and tech cultures mistake argument for insight, and why more discussion doesn’t necessarily lead to understanding or change.
• 17:50 –The tension between emotional speed and civic depth — what technology amplifies, and what it erodes.
• 24:06 – Designing for reflection: what it takes to build platforms that support empathy, not outrage.
• 39:11 – Bringing emotional education into institutions, policymaking, and design.
• 46:01 –Reflections on where we go from here — cultivating the emotional capacity democracy requires.

Dr. Sarah Stein Lubrano – Researcher, educator, and author focused on the psychology of political learning and epistemic humility. She holds a doctorate from Oxford and is the author of Don’t Talk About Politics: How to Change 21st Century Minds.

• Sarah’s Website
• Don’t Talk About Politics – Book Link

• The School of Life – Where Sarah developed emotional learning content
• Trauma-informed pedagogy – Educational design that recognizes emotional safety and regulation.
• Patient experience research – How listening and context shape clinical outcomes.
• AI as cognitive scaffolding – The potential and risks of AI agents in deliberative thinking.

• Episode 6: "Emotional Intelligence in the Age of AI: A Conversation with Marisa Zalabak".
• Episode 7: "Who Watches the Watchers? Privacy Law, AI, and Power with William McGeveran"

How do we create room for real thought—and for each other—in an age of constant noise? Dr. Sarah Stein Lubrano offers a thoughtful and hopeful path forward, grounded in emotion, curiosity, and civic design.

🎧 Listen now: Episode Link

Host: Mary Camacho

Guest: Dr. Sarah Stein Lubrano

Produced by Terms of Service Podcast

Sound Design: Arthur Vincent and Sonor Lab

Co-Producers: Nicole Klau Ibarra & Mary Camacho