In this episode of The Change Agent, Eric sits down once again with Dr. Kevin Mays to explore one of the most uncomfortable—and defining—realities of leadership: chaos.

When certainty collapses, plans fail, and people look to you for answers you don’t yet have, how you show up matters more than what you know. Together, Eric and Dr. Mays unpack why our obsession with clarity can actually undermine leadership, how expertise can quietly become a liability, and why the most effective leaders learn to stand calmly in uncertainty rather than rush to control it.

This conversation dives deep into:

• Why leaders must learn to be okay with not knowing
• How emotional reactivity spreads through teams—and how calm does the same
• The hidden ways identity and ego block growth and innovation
• Why leadership is less about answers and more about presence
• How great leaders create other leaders, not followers

Drawing on real-world leadership experience—from military command to executive coaching—this episode challenges the idea that leadership is about certainty, authority, or control. Instead, it reframes leadership as an internal discipline: leading yourself first, so others can follow with confidence.

If you lead people in complex, high-pressure environments—or if you aspire to—this episode offers practical insight into navigating chaos without losing yourself or your team.

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