Chris and Toby welcome friend and mentor, Ron Germack, for a deep conversation about real versus work identity, major life transitions, and so much more. Ron goes into the insanity of living the "grind it out" corporate lifestyle in the '80s and '90s, as well as what it means to put value on character versus competency. Ron shares his personal journey of navigating career shifts, embracing a value of service even in retirement, and finding resilience while battling a health crises.