Charles Kupchan is a professor of international affairs at Georgetown University and a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. He previously served on the National Security Council under Presidents Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, helping shape U.S. policy toward Europe.

In this episode, Kupchan explains his concept of “liberal realism” and why he believes the world is entering a new geopolitical era—one defined not by a single dominant power, but by a fragmented, “de-centered” global order. He discusses the decline of multilateral institutions, the uncertain future of NATO, and the growing shift of power from West to East and North to South.

The conversation also explores whether the liberal international order is truly collapsing, what a multipolar world means for global stability, and why democracies must adapt to survive in the digital age. Kupchan offers a sobering look at the future of global cooperation, warning that demand for coordination is rising just as the ability to achieve it is declining.

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