This is a recording of my interview with Andy and Deb in "the 12th Dimension" on 24.12.22.  The special guest on the interview, as well as me, was Earl Grey Anderson, Director of Mufon, Southern California who I enjoyed discussing theories and events with to do with phenomenology and UFOs and Bigfoot and you name it.   Andy and Deb are great interviewers and Earl is a great co-guest. Enjoy over two hours of interesting and provocative dialogue, questioning and discussion.

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