Pastor burnout is real. Church struggles are real. But what if the secret to church growth isn’t about adding more programs—but about restoring health?

In this powerful episode, I sit down with Chris Binion to talk about why healthy pastors create healthy churches. We discuss:

✅ Why church health matters more than growth
✅ How rest and boundaries fuel stronger leadership
✅ The Pastor’s Refuge—a retreat designed to restore pastors
✅ The warning signs of burnout (and how to prevent them)

If you're a pastor, ministry leader, or church revitalizer, this episode is for you. Don’t miss this conversation that could change your ministry—and your life.

🎧 Hit play now and start your journey to a thriving, healthy church!