In part two of this three-part series, hosts M. Scott Sparks and Jeremy J. Clark continue their round table with retired U.S. Army CW5s and senior counterintelligence (CI) professionals Glenn Jones, Shawn Michaud, Mike Dye, and Traci Goodwin. What follows is an unfiltered, practitioner-level assessment of the current state of U.S. CI.

The panel tackles one of the profession’s most pressing challenges: talent retention. Drawing on decades of experience, they examine why highly trained CI professionals choose to leave, the institutional pressures that drive burnout or career transitions, and what leadership can do to build meaningful, sustainable career pathways for the next generation of professionals.

The discussion also confronts gaps in CI training and education. From inconsistencies in instruction to outdated training models, the group highlights where the system falls short and why modernization is essential. They propose a more unified and standardized approach to CI education that deliberately connects foundational tradecraft, advanced specialization, and continuous professional development to better prepare the force for emerging threats.

Beyond structure and policy, this episode centers on the human dimension of the profession. The panel reflects on the role of passion in sustaining long careers in a demanding field, the critical importance of mentorship, and the lessons forged through hardship, institutional friction, and innovation.

Part Two continues this candid trilogy with hard-earned insights and honest dialogue about the future direction of American CI and the people responsible for carrying it forward.