This was originally posted on Vimeo in 2021. Now it’s here! Enjoy.

In this recorded phone conversation, Johanna McCloy and Peter Warmka talk about their shared and unusual CIA experiences, their respective books, and more.

Johanna McCloy is the editor of Six Car Lengths Behind an Elephant: Undercover & Overwhelmed as a CIA Wife and Mother by Lillian McCloy. (Lillian is her mother).

Peter Warmka is the author of Confessions of a CIA Spy: The Art of Human Hacking.

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